oh, sorry, that's spelled with an 's'. Considered. eh meaning 'thought of as'



no, you missunderstood me. What I meant is that while I was still in school we were always taught that german was a world language along with english, spanish, french (and probably more which I've forgotten. didn't pay too much attention). however I can't understand how german can be a world language (and why we were forced to learn it) as germans are the only people speaking it.



no, not here. But as I understood you, you inquired not about this place, but rather what people have against germans in general?

I only meant I have nothing against them other than when they answer me in german when I ask in english. I know this don't aply to all germans, but it's pretty damn anoying when it happens. Which isn't too uncommon in my experience.

Since I've only been in germany for a very short time, all the germans I meet are either on vacation here in norway, or at various music festivals which I like to attend. The usual conversation I have with germans go along the lines of: 'Do you know what time it is?' 'Where are we?' 'Who are you and why are you not wearing clothes?' 'Will you please help me get this Sauerkraut of my leather pants?'

French people are also know for refusing to answer english questions in anything but french, but since I haven't met too many of those I wouldn't know. In fact I really like french people since half of all I've ever met ended up in bed with me. (I've met 2, and the other guy was her brother =)

you know who i dont like, its the amish. one of the younger ones (15 or 16) hit me in the head with a metal bar, knocked my ass out.


i think german was almost the usa national language, way back in begining usa time. ah, but both my parents speak german anyways. now usa language seems mostly to be english,english variants/ebonics/slang, and spanish. i'm still hoping esparanto or pig latin makes a comeback, that would be sweet.

@John_Doe
Oops, pardon me plz for didn't catch some sentences
Well, German also in other countries one speaks, for example in parts of Switzerland (french,R?toromanic+italy too),Austria, east France, Netherlands, east Belgium, dukedom Luxembourg, princedom Liechtenstein, Soviet Union, Russia, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Denmark, Italy, parts of Africa(1,5 million ppls), America bla bla
Lots of German dialects (Indogermanic)in the world, but official language only in 4 countrys. All academics in Korea, wann say in Korea is comparable the rank of the German language of the
educationalelitist and "akademisierten" position of latin in Europe. ok, complex grammar
In earlier times, German was the world language of the sciences, now it`s the english language coz reasen is it`s "hegemonialen Culture".
German belongs to the westGermanic language's group, English too! (dutsch, Africaans, Friesisch)

"however I can't understand how german can be a world language (and why we were forced to learn it) as germans are the only people speaking it.."
Hmm. maybe for this reason: remember, centenaries ago the worldlanguage was latin, a few hundreds years later spanisch, then french bla bla. Yes, in addition German too.
In modern times it`s English, i think since the 60`, ca. forty odd.
Which language will we speak in 100 years? Who knows, German? Maybe Suaheli

Ok i talk too much,I`m at my wit's end

Hmm, i can`t also undestand that some answers in german, and I can make nothing of it
Personally i say it`s not terribly nice!
Many understand better than they speak...
Actually i speak with my son very often english. In the last time even more, coz i forgot a lot and he rectified me plenty of times
Same with my half brother in Norway, tho he speaks a little bit german.

Tis true.

just to get back to the initial point, i?m german myself and never felt particularly offended, although there were often remarks, most of the time in relation to our beloved way of mistreating movies aka dubbing. the problem in such a forum is always a lot of people from all other the world coming together using a language that is not native to them to communicate, misunderstandings are always bound to happen at some point. maybe there should be more caution and if there are reamrks people should always make it clear with smilies that they?re joking, that is IF they?re joking.
about dubbing...well, we don?t have much of a choice, the majority of the people is just satisfied the way it is, they haven?t ever experienced it differently. kinda shows a nasty attitude of assimilation, to make a cultural product more easily acceptable for germany by including the native language.

emoboy
i dont think wwe have problems here.
HHAH is really friendly forum.
most "fucks" etc. r just rude jokes.

it?s not that there are problems, but as you could see with Dr. Love there are misunderstandings. nobody?s asking for anyone to change the kind of humour or something, just the awareness of the possibility that there could be misunderstandings should do it. i?m pretty sure nobody wants to flame anyone, well, besides me, cause Spud is a twat, but that is a whole other story.

honestly, i would like to hear that story
just to be sure that my guess-work is right.

do you really want to hear the story, it could turn out to be an hour long episode of Macgyver and I wouldn't want to wish that upon even the worst scum and villainy this side of Mos Eisley Space Port.

Pardon my late entry into this thread. I haven't visited this forum for a while as I recently suffered a relapse of my BGII: Throne of Bhaal addiction and that's all I've been doing lately. Now I'm going through and playing catch up. Anyway, @ john_doe, it's been my experience that when a German answers you in german after being asked something in english, it is normally because they are not confident in their ability to effectively and correctly answer in english and they will usually only do this if they know that you can understand german.

As far as a reason for why many people seem to dislike germans, I think a lot of it is because they are kind of programmed to. Think about how many of our movies you have seen where the villain is either clearly german or it is implied becuase they speak with a german accent. Also, I think it is partially because of history education. I will expalin more on that later after the reults of an experiment of sorts. I would like to pose a question as kind of an experiment, the question being this:

How many concentration camps were there in Germany?

i did not speak german when i just moved to Germany.
and i spoke english AND I NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS.
i always got answers in english
of coz i did not asked womens and old peeps

One ?

Firstly, the British are portrayed just as much as the evil enemy as Germans... and even when they aren't, the parts are played by British actors.

As it's an experiment I'll answer, but i don't know where your coming from with it. Let's hope your not implying anyone thinks Germans are nazis, unless they have a nat for a brain Incidently I saw some BMP pricks handing out shit around Leeds today, the scallis.



Many more, but the nazis were such arseholes they had to hide the shit they were doing from their own party members and german citizens. The nazi's setup camps all across europe, France, most in Poland, and the east.

The reason they didn't build the bulk in Germany is a combination of lots of things. Firstly, the policy of the final solution is debatable, it is not clear to anyone whether this was original intentions or developed later, rhetoric points to the former, while the evidence does seem to add some weight to the latter... but then again it could be looked as an accumulation of policies or a strategic path towards to the annhilation of the Jewish people. So to the point, early policy banned and excluded Jews, and pressured them to leave the country. Lots did, most fleeing to the East, into Russia/Poland and joining the rest of the dispersed jewish people. When Hitler decided he'd invade Poland the tit got territory with a massive Jewish population, and thusly the policy seemed to develop from expulsion to erradication. The camps were built in sparse area, and where the nazi's felt there was a large jewish population, but away from the cities and towns mainly.

On top of this, the camps were utterly disgusting things, if lower nazis or the german people found out, it probably would have been resisted. The nazis took steps to prevent the german people from finding out as much they could, but it must have been obvious to many people which is one of the most disgusting things about that whole saga.

The camps would have been greater in number in Germany if the nazis had implemented the final solution first, and not expulsion first. They were more numerous across eastern europe to reflect the size of the jewish.

As a site note, holocaust was a british word to describe the 'pogroms' in London. I think it was King Richard III that was accredited with the creation of that word. Concentration camps were another British 'invention', first used in the Boer War.

BTW WTF does this have to do with the justifiable hatred of dubbing in all circumstances apart from anime and children's films? or the inability of some releasers to tag dubbed films?

spudthedestroyer
u r not right... i dunno what u think or want to say with your post.. but
if u dont know
nazi used peoples leather and hairs to produce some wares
and they sold it inside Germany and had good success.
so everyone knew all.
why not in Germany?
simple, why move peoples from Poland, Belarus, Russia and other countries to Gemany? it's more easy to kill were they live. (or near)

yet,
1. u r talking about jewish people. well, if u dont know - many of them moved to USA. really a lot. not only Poland. in ussr? nope u r completely not right. why the they want to move in country where was communism?
2. again, jewish people. i always hear that they were main victim of the WW2. hmm. in my country were killed about 3-4 millions of peoples. from 9-10 millions. if we gonna read documents of war time we will see that during there war were killed about 1-2 millions of jewish people. now that number changed to 6-8 millions. well, if u know Hitler wanted to destroy 90% of us, and left 10% like slaves.
but nobody gives a shit about it.
why i am writing all that stuff?
i dunno, i just tired of talks about WW2. and "main victims" of WW2. it makes me sick.

funny thing - i've talked to some old germans and they say that they hate russsians becouse of what they did to Germany (u know many german womens were raped by soviet soldiers. when red army entered in Germany every soldier who stole or raped - was killed, but Stalin said kinda - They lost their homes, families - let them do all what they want. kinda revenge. so after that Germany was raped. kinda.. well. like bombing of Dresden by England. that was revenge too) when i say - hey but u killed so many peeps in ussr and not soldiers -just common sitizens - they asnwer - NO we did not that... well, people always forget about things that should make them

i dont want to say that Germany need to pay money for WW2. nope. but they pay now to peoples who were in concentration camps.
tnx, i think old peoples need money. tnx for that Germany.
will be better if WW2 would not be MACHINE for making money now. screaming we r victims! so Germany still need to be and lick our asses. i don think that todays german peeps have to answer for their grandfathers. that's not fair.
just law must be very strict again neo-nazi.

Edit. just posted and now i see so many mistakes in spelling. sry.

There were many Jewish people here in Poland before II War. And why the others moved to USA? Simply becouse it was not safe for them in Europe.

but... I think this topic is going wrong way...

carlos66
hmm i know that.
and i did not say that there were no them in Poland.
where i said that? i was just talking about peeps in Germany.
why some of them moved to Poland? simple. jewish community in Poland was big.

and u say that to me?
i just answered on Spud's post.

read plz whole conversation.

wrong way? hehe, that's normal for HHAH. and if u will ask me - i will answer, that's good.
well, at least noone, except me and Satan, is being persecuted.

ok, I just misunderstood that part, please take no offence
anyway, just like I said, it's much off topic already...

there's no need PrayeR, i know all about it, i recently wrote a paper on the Holocaust, I've studied it in depth for about 4 years. Infact you didn't answer it at all I'm afraid, it was an answer to a question, you could have questioned parts of it but you just posted controversial views on the matter.

Carlos is right, I fail to see the point of this whole little ditty anyways. Care to clue us in anr11? I think I'll leave it unlocked cos history is interesting, but if this ends up like a post where this goes south i'm going to lock and post some books to read, I've read a lot to know where to find some info and interpretations.


edit
I have an inkling that you simply misunderstood what I said in the first post so i'll paraphrase:
fact: nazi's = anti-semitic
fact: Poland had the highest Jewish population
fact: initial anti-semitic policy was expulsion and not erradication, not until 1941 officially
fact: expelled Jewish population mainly settled in Poland and the east because a) Allies refused to take in large numbers of displaced jews b) Jewish homeland under british rule c) large displaced community already present due to years of oppresion, and pogroms by many nations.
fact: poland had an even larger Jewish population at this point
fact: When Germany invaded poland, this population was under German control. Same goes for the populations under all occupied nations
fact: Nazi's stepped up the anti-semetic agenda, despite war as they believe they had to deal with a problem contained merely to the minds of a few numskulls and party rhetoic
fact: Most concentration camps were in poland and the east to reflect this.
fact: German Jewish population plummited in Germany, but many simply couldn't leave and thusly some concentration camps were constructed in Germany itself, but the Nazis believed that the main body should take place away from the German public

I think that should make it easier to see what I was saying to a none native english speaker? hope so because there really wasn't anything wrong with what I said.

This is why I refute what you say next
/edit



you are not right, mine was interpretation contructed on the base of the most accepted interpretation of a historical event. That is really insulting considering that I have studied in depth in this field, and have written many papers on the holocaust. You are voicing opinion, and I'd say based on dubious 'evidence', I am voicing an interpretation, based upon the evidence I have gathered and the interpretation of many hisorians.



Wrong, sorry but that isn't true. The german people were largely unaware of the final solution until it was well in motion, to think they were is demoralising and totally lacking any grasp of the difference between a German and a Nazi. If you were trying to say quite a few knew, probably, but a majority is wrong.

I've heard claims like that before, but most people will agree that the holocaust was neither common knowledge nor endorsed by the German people.



Wrong, most displaced jews emigrated East because both the US and UK refused to accept the vast majority of immigrants from Germany. Some went to the us, but only a minute fraction. fact (source, everyone), look at the emigration statistics of the 1930s, most went to eastern europe, not by choice, they were forced to. Britain even restricted the jewish emigration to Palestine (Britain controlled the area at this time). Like I said I've studied this in depth, and most Jews were dispersed to the east, britain, france and USA took in pitiful amounts of immigrants, even when they learnt of the escalating policies of the nazi party.

I was referring to eastern countries not specifically Russia, I said the east, ukraine, poland, etc. which is what happened. It wasn't choice, they were forced out, you settle where you settle.



No, your wrong again. The Jewish were the main victims of the Nazi party, they did not participate in WW2 apart from being in the service of the allied armed forces. You make it sound like they were an army, they weren't they were simply members of the Jewish faith, persecuted by the Nazi's for believing in their faith whilst Germany fought in the war Work camps were constructed to deal with prisoners of war and many allied soldiers died in these conditions, but whilst fighting the war, the nazi's stepped up to the final solution, officially in 1941 if i recall correctly, to continue the campaign of ethnic clensing, and sparked by the acquition of new territory and a enourmous ethnic/Jewish population that constructs Eastern Europe.

One of the down falls of the German army was the Nazi's persuit of racial intolerance... if they would have waited before embarking on their immoral and foolhardy pursuit of eliminating all those who they perceived to be racially inadequet, that is Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, etc. the war could have, and many argue would have turned out differently. But the nazi's were racist extremists, and it's very clear that the hatred for others was central to their very government.

You must use statistics carefully, the six million jews killed (estimated, it is not known, the number changes so much because over the many years, vast amounts of effort has been put into discovering the motivation, causation and implementation of the final solution, but even then it is impossible to know what the true death count is [6 main is the most accepted amount]). The communist government was pathetic at recording the tolls of the eastern camps, locking documents in the archives, and government officials of the nations hardly kept acurate recordings of every casualty. This makes it very difficult to get a figure, arguing about it on this basis is futile until further research can reveal better figures.

However, I disagree fundamentally with everything you said really. It is contrary to historical research, my own studies, and my own research and therefore I stuggle to see your viewpoint, or infact what you were trying to say at all (does it have any point?)

I reiterate, just because a country is led by a dictatorship, doesn't mean that everyone underneath that dictatorship follows the nutcase.

All this talk reminds me of my history lessons and I'd rather not dwell on what I've been taught many times. The first answer I gave is correct, or at least, that's the answer I would give and teach others; many, but not as many as in Eastern Europe.

okay infact i can't be arsed having a discussion about this at all, i've done enough at school, college and uni. I won't lock so say whatever, just don't post something that's going to inflame something, cos i know some of you are thinking about it...
!!! monkey back away now !!!
wargand, put the penguin down!
you in the back, keep those obscene images to yourself

Anyways, if anyone wants to debate this, you can pm me and I'll answer, but i think the matter is pretty much futile as it stands.

ah, spud, your post needs a bibliography.

i can understand why the germans went after the jews, its easier to unite a group if they all share a common enemy, and portray them as subhuman evil vermin species. its even better when the hated group of the moment cant really defend themselves. every country has done it at sometime, the germans just did it more efficiently, so they became the new hated group. half a century later, how many times have you seen movies with the baddies being either x-nazis or some kind of nazi variants? quite a few, i would imagine. seperating, segregating, and hating is just human nature, and i;m sure holocausts/ethnic cleansing will pop it's head up forever. it may have a different name, or a carefully laid out Public Relations campaign, but its the same shit.