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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:14 pm  Post subject:
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Lunatic Of Gods Creation
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i always give feedback as soon as my stuff arrives.... but should i wait until they give me feedback for payment first??? confuddled now

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:07 am  Post subject:
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Dead But Dreaming
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George Tatum wrote:
I disagree, I have encountered a number of sellers who are absolute twats, selling shoddy goods and then leaving negative feedback just to retaliate for buyers who tell the truth. IMO the buyer shouldn't be able to leave feedback until the seller has done so, the current system is geared up too much towards sellers.

As you may have guessed I don't sell on ebay but I do buy.


Well, this is the old chicken-egg argument. It all comes down to
trust I suppose. Not being a twat-seller myself, I disagree with you.
I believe that the life cycle of a sale begins when I list an item (fully
disclosed description with pictures of the actual item - not a stock
photo) and ends when the item arrives in your hands. Then and only
then should leaving feedback be considered.

In between the beginning and end should be used for communication
(i.e. questions between seller and buyer) to facilitate the sale. This is
illustrated well in Slayer's example. I would never file an unpaid item
alert without contacting the buyer first. That is just ridiculous.

As for the current set up being geared more toward sellers, I don't
quite agree with that one. Negative feedback hurts the seller WAY more
than the buyer. I guarantee power sellers who have thousands of listings
don't rifle through bad feedback for all potential buyers. But the same is
not true for sellers who have bad feedback. It's like having leprosy when
your feedback drops to the low 90s.

The new system is a complete unbalance. But like Spud said, ebay
doesn't care about that. They only care about their bottom line.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:17 am  Post subject:
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Dead But Dreaming
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bag woman wrote:
i always give feedback as soon as my stuff arrives.... but should i wait until they give me feedback for payment first??? confuddled now



I think if you are happy with the item when it is your hands, then you
should leave good feedback. If you have had some complications with
the sale (i.e. you got the item and you like it, but it took 3 months to get to
you) then you should consider a neutral or a negative feedback. If you
have a problem with a sale, hopefully some communication has been
attempted. The majority of problems that arise on ebay can be averted
just by talking it out. I've had scenarios where a seller didn't like the
condition (despite it being described and photographed) and I ended up
refunding some of his money back. He was very happy with the arrangement
and nobody got a negative (in fact, I got glowing feedback from him).

Looking at your particular situation, if you payed timely and you like the
item, then there should be no reason why your seller should leave you
negative feedback. It would be bad business to do so.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:14 am  Post subject:
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Lunatic Of Gods Creation
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well fingers crossed, so far i have been more than happy with what i have recieved and i always pay within the first 10-30 mins of knowing i have won an item. just in case tho, what do i do if i have paid for something, but the item doesn't arrive? sorry for the q's, but am a new ebayer and thank you for your previous answer

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:29 am  Post subject:
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Dead But Dreaming
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bag woman wrote:
well fingers crossed, so far i have been more than happy with what i have recieved and i always pay within the first 10-30 mins of knowing i have won an item. just in case tho, what do i do if i have paid for something, but the item doesn't arrive? sorry for the q's, but am a new ebayer and thank you for your previous answer



I would try to get some information first like 'when was it shipped' and
by what method (media mail, priority, express, etc). Depending on the
method, distance, and major holidays will determine what is a reasonable
time frame to expect the package. Another option to consider (if the seller
offers it) is delivery confirmation. Through USPS you can get a limited
ability to track an item. It's is a little extra but worth it IMHO.

If communication fails and the seller has taken your money then
you can file an 'item not received' dispute with ebay. Also, if you used
paypal to pay for the item, you can file with them to get your money
back. I think the time limit is 45 days via paypal, but don't quote me
on that.

Once you've filed (either ebay or paypal) you'll have to wait and see
if the seller tries to contact you to work it out further. Failing that you
should leave negative feedback as a lovely warning to all not to buy from
the seller.

Hope that helps!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:16 am  Post subject:
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Lunatic Of Gods Creation
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how long is a reasonable time to wait? i only order within my region, not abroad. last question, honestly, lol and thank you again

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:52 am  Post subject:
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Dead But Dreaming
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bag woman wrote:
how long is a reasonable time to wait? i only order within my region, not abroad. last question, honestly, lol and thank you again


I can only speak for shipping in the U.S. Media mail usually takes
between 4-6 days, Priority mail 2-3 days, express is normally overnight.
The USPS makes no guarantees about delivery times though. Especially
if the package is going to Alaska, Hawaii, or from one coast to the other.
International mail is a whole other story which I won't get into here. :D

And... you're welcome! :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:49 pm  Post subject:
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George Tatum wrote:
I disagree, I have encountered a number of sellers who are absolute twats, selling shoddy goods and then leaving negative feedback just to retaliate for buyers who tell the truth. IMO the buyer shouldn't be able to leave feedback until the seller has done so, the current system is geared up too much towards sellers.

As you may have guessed I don't sell on ebay but I do buy.


I agree with this; all sellers should give feedback first before the buyer. The buyer is the one with all the trust, they hand over cash without getting anything. There is no reason for a seller not to immediately leave feedback when they have received the money other than downright dishonesty.

Buyer feedback should be 'retaliation' enabled though as a buffer for bad buyers, so the seller can leave detailed justification and rebuttal for any feedback they receive with the ability to raise a dispute against the buyer (which would just be flagged up as 'dispute'). You can then see bad buyers by the number of disputes next to the name and even filter them out so they can't bid. You can see bad sellers by the number of low/no dispute buyers that leave negative feedback.

If a bad buyer tries to harm a seller, then it can be just raised with "this guy is a scumbag" sticker next to him or similar, lowering the statistic / damage a bad buyer can do to seller. The bad buyer, if they continue, can then be removed from the system and any negative feedback they have left can be disabled on seller accounts saying the feedback left was untrustworthy.

That's a very, very simple system that would make the whole system more trustworthy... ebay will never implement it though. There's hundreds of ways paypal can easily improve their system, they choose not to for pure greed.


Take my laptop for example, it was a great buy but it took AGES to arrive because the seller wasn't entirely honest... that's ages for a really expensive item (>£1000 in total). The reason was that the seller didn't actually have items in stock despite his claims; he waited till he had enough buys to buy off of a wholesaler at a discount which is how he got his prices so low. This is despite claims he stocked the item. You got a bargain but he didn't let you know what he was doing and handing over so much cash without any confirmation or updates is a terrible thing for a buyer to have to do.

I chose to leave no feedback, and even though i paid instantly i got no feedback for being a model buyer. The first thing he should have been forced to do on receipt of a payment would be to give me positive feedback for paying instantly and providing every bit of conceivable information he needed.

Now what i got was excellent and everything, but that seller isn't honest but we have no way of flagging that up without being tarnished by him.


I'd buy from him again with the knowledge i'd be waiting for him to meet a selling quota, but it would have been useful to be able to read comments about this before buying instead of people fearing having their feedback trashed by a 'bad' seller.




I've just sold a reasonably expensive item (a nintendo wii), I chose to leave feedback a day after posting. I am now open to attack by a buyer even though there is no reason to. I doubt this will happen or anything, but its a worry created by a bad feedback system that could be easily fixed.

I would say that as an occasional seller I always detail the item to great lengths, its the right thing to do and the best form of protection.





I'd point out an fourth option for feedback; positive, neutral and negative are three options, the fourth is not to leave any feedback. I have chosen to do this before because there was no way to leave negative or neutral without being stung by a terrible feedback system :(

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Last edited by spudthedestroyer on Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:55 pm  Post subject:
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Spud is quite right, I have given up leaving anything other than positive feedback. On a number of occasions I've left no feedback when I wanted to leave negative, and also left positives where I've had no problem with the goods but been charged £3 or more postage for something that's cost a quid to post and arrived packed in (free) recycled cardboard boxes, because people have written such crap about me in the past simply as retaliation.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:13 am  Post subject:
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Lunatic Of Gods Creation
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thanks guys, much appreciated

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:16 am  Post subject:
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:58 pm
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As far as I'm concerned when I pay for an Item I have completed my end of the transaction, what more does the seller want from me. If the item doesn't show up, or takes a while I can be a twat to the seller, emailing them, pestering them, I don't care. I have paid, that's all they need from me.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:00 pm  Post subject:
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well that's not exactly true, the feedback system is the ONLY trust mechanism there on ebay. I'd hope everyone uses it even if its not very good.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:39 pm  Post subject:
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Dead But Dreaming
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Jack wrote:
As far as I'm concerned when I pay for an Item I have completed my end of the transaction, what more does the seller want from me. If the item doesn't show up, or takes a while I can be a twat to the seller, emailing them, pestering them, I don't care. I have paid, that's all they need from me.


As Spud said, not exactly true. For example, a seller is paid promptly
for an item. The seller ships it out and leaves feedback for the buyer.
Ten days later the seller gets an email from the buyer asking where the
package is. From here a few things could have happened:

1. Lost in the mail. Sad but true it does happen, but rarely ever does.

2. It was stolen off the buyer's porch. Sadder, but more common.

3. The person lives in Alaska and it ain't gonna get there for two weeks.

4. The buyer has lied. :o The buyer is just trying to get a freebie.

Now, none of the above is the sellers fault. But since the seller left
feedback already, he's gotta take it where the sun don't shine. When
I ship items I ALWAYS get delivery confirmation for the package.
I've solved more problems by having that little number to give to the
buyer when a complaint arrives.

This is why I advocate the buyer leaving feedback first. The natural
end of a transaction is when the buyer is happy. Simple communication
throughout the transaction should smooth out any issues and consequently
build trust between the two parties. Hell, if buyers would read the full
auction description and terms, ebay would be a breeze.
:wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:00 pm  Post subject:
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Lunatic Of Gods Creation
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Location: your nightmares
i always read the full description and terms first :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:12 am  Post subject:
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Dead But Dreaming
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bag woman wrote:
i always read the full description and terms first :mrgreen:



Huzzah! :D


Yep, when I buy stuff on ebay I think I triple-read the auction
just to make sure I have the terms right. I really hate surprises.
But, despite the length of this thread, most transactions go fairly
smoothly. Only once have I ever been screwed out of an item (an
old Pentium 200mhz processor if I remember correctly) that I
paid for and never received. After many emails and an actual phone
conversation I still never got it. It gave me great pleasure to give
him his last negative feedback before he was kicked off ebay. :matrix:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:05 pm  Post subject:
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Today two DVDs of "Snuff" arrived in my mailbox. The first was posted on Dec 24th, the second January 30th.

After having communcated a lot with the seller, she decided to send me another DVD, which I think now triggered the arrival of the first one too. Royal Mail sucks monkeyballs, that's for sure. If I had gone on bike to travel to the UK and back myself I would have had the DVD in my possession much sooner :evil:

This is an example of why buyers are not always lying about not having received anything and how mail can f**k up.

I sent her an email now asking what to do with the second DVD. I don't feel like paying for sending it back, although I really want only one copy.



I have another question: what to do if the deadline for opening up disputes is gone, but you still didn't get your object? My US purchase is taking so long now, it might be this is gonna happen to me, especially since it is the seller who opened up a dispute on me without asking me first about the payment. While not responding to my emails, she might have gotten the check by now and not sending me the DVD. In a short period of time the deadline will pass. So: what to do?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:12 pm  Post subject:
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Lunatic Of Gods Creation
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um.... contact ebay and explain your prob??? soz slays, not got a clue

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:00 pm  Post subject:
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Dead But Dreaming
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Slayer wrote:

I have another question: what to do if the deadline for opening up disputes is gone, but you still didn't get your object? My US purchase is taking so long now, it might be this is gonna happen to me, especially since it is the seller who opened up a dispute on me without asking me first about the payment. While not responding to my emails, she might have gotten the check by now and not sending me the DVD. In a short period of time the deadline will pass. So: what to do?


The best advice I can give you is talk to ebay via the 'live help' function.
That seems to be the quickest way to get information about some of the
more obscure problems. If the seller has filed a non-paying bidder alert on
you, you MUST respond to it. Otherwise, ebay will close it out and
you'll have no other recourse to solve the problem. The fact that the seller
is refusing to communicate with you is unfortunate. Do you have any proof
of payment like a money order stub or something like that? If you don't
you may have a problem on your hands. Contact ebay and see what they
say.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:13 pm  Post subject:
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Will do so, thanks. Only proof I got is from my bank: they send me an overview of all my recent payments regularly. This one is among them of course.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:41 am  Post subject:
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:58 pm
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I have something like 180 on eBay, maybe half buying half selling, I have slowed down on the whole thing now though.

I have bad habbits though, I look for things that are "R@RE" just randomly and when I find them I convince myself I have to have them, that if I don't buy it now I will never get the chance again.

Been after a certain brand of sweater for a while, on the off chance I search for it I find one with 2 days left, I then fret about how I'm going to raise the money in 2 days, pfft. I just decided to leave it, and look for things when I have the money, not the other way around.

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