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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:32 pm  Post subject:
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Still, I would be glad if somebody told me how to avoid this "problem" so that the rips meet the formal requirements.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:55 pm  Post subject:
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Firstly, its only AC3 that should be interleaved at 64/96ms, and this is what I have been told. Thought I'd clear that up.
-----
gknot interleaves badly by default? I hadn't noticed, maybe 42ms i okay then? In gknot, when you choose just mux, it should say 1frame under interleave, preload 100ms *I think*. This is most odd, I was positive all of mine came out at 64ms, all the time, using gknot. I must admit that I find AC3 a total waste most of the time unless the film has a decent enough track, so haven't used it for ages with AC3.

If it doesn't and you get a wrong value, and you get split reported by gspot, load up in nandub, then go to audio>interleaving, and set it to the correct values. (interleaving, not delay!)

However, the sync issue is more accurately compatability. If you have a half decent pc/sound crad, it can handle it, slam this baby on an old pc and it will lag and die horribly.

To point to good old mr TDX's guidelines (die in hell mr TDX :lol:))... it says:
Code:
- AC3 MUST be used wisely and correctly.
 - AC3 MUST be interleaved at 64 or 96 ms.

Which definitely goes in line with what I was told, unless its some bull based upon TDX... I'm not sure.
I don't have it handy, but its to do with people getting sync problems when the audio isn't properally muxed into the container along keyframes.

That's why when you see a group release not interleaved at 64/96ms (and is AC3!!!) on a listing site, you'll also see *BAD INTERLEAVING* after it many times... but as said maybe its been updated to allow 42ms or something... now that I think about it I've seen a fair few 42ms these days.

However, its the "Split across interleaves" that's the dead give away, if it says that then you have a problem, what it should say is:
Code:
Interleave:           64ms
Preload:              100ms
Audio alignment:      Aligned


or something to that degree with AC3; With mp3, I think you can happily have any value really. But its the "audio alignment" that points to possible sync (and playback) problems, if it says split. You should closely check for a problem.

Sometimes it will say split on the second cd, this means you've cut on a keyframe and it can't be avoided.


But this is what I've been told, maybe its wrong? Since a lot of people do seem to be interleaving at 42ms according to gspot, but they are also split.

It might be actually that they just don't think that older systems will be playing them anyways so don't care anymore, but the idea is that the audio is supposed to be aligned, not split I think.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:09 pm  Post subject:
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I'm talking about interleaving here, not delay. And yes, I tried correcting it with NanDub, but the outcome is exactly the same. I put in the correct value and it's still showing "split across interleaves". So either it's some problem with NanDub, or GSpot is giving false results.

So you're saying even if the interleaving is correct, it may come out as incorrect on the second CD?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:10 pm  Post subject:
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Actually, thinking about it, I think I know why it should technically be 64ms. There won't be any lag on playback since the audio is aligned and therefore less processing is needed (which is what split means). Interleaving is to do with overhead too, the lower the value of interleaving, the larger your avi container will be (i know this because back in the day, to squeesh an oversized avi onto a cd, I changed the interleaved value to 96 to reduce the filesize)

I guess the idea behind interleaving at 64 or 96 is a) the audio is aligned and playback will be less intensive to process b) the overhead is a lot less than smaller values (I belive you can interleave at 32ms and it will be aligned)

Educated guess mind.

Quote:
So you're saying even if the interleaving is correct, it may come out as incorrect on the second CD?


no, I'm saying if you have a avi, mux in ac3 at the correct interleaving, then you cut the avi on a keyframe, cd1 will have aligned, cd2 will report split.


Anyways, spurred on by the issue here, and to see if my information is correct, if there's a bug in gspot or whatever, I corrected a avi:

Code:
--- File Information ---
File Name:            Avalon.CD.1.[KI].[AnimeReactor].avi
File Size:            656,482,304 bytes

--- Video Information ---
Video Codec Name:     DivX 4 (OpenDivX)
Duration:             00:54:08
Video Bitrate:        1162kb/s
Bits / Pixel:         0.193
Resolution:           608x412
Aspect Ratio:         1.48 / [31:21]
Frames Per Second:    23.976

--- Advanced ---
B-VOP:                B-VOP
QPel:                 No QPel
GMC:                  No GMC

--- Audio Information ---
No of Audio Streams:  1
Audio Codec:          0x2000(AC3, Dolby Laboratories, Inc) AC3
Audio Bitrate:        448kb/s CBR 48000 Hz
Audio Channel Count:  5
Interleave:           42ms
Preload:              512ms
Audio alignment:      Split


Code:
--- File Information ---
File Name:            avalon.fix.avi
File Size:            655,804,416 bytes

--- Video Information ---
Video Codec Name:     DivX 4 (OpenDivX)
Duration:             00:54:08
Video Bitrate:        1162kb/s
Bits / Pixel:         0.193
Resolution:           608x412
Aspect Ratio:         1.48 / [31:21]
Frames Per Second:    23.976

--- Advanced ---
B-VOP:                B-VOP
QPel:                 No QPel
GMC:                  No GMC

--- Audio Information ---
No of Audio Streams:  1
Audio Codec:          0x2000(AC3, Dolby Laboratories, Inc) AC3
Audio Bitrate:        448kb/s CBR 48000 Hz
Audio Channel Count:  5
Interleave:           64ms
Preload:              128ms
Audio alignment:      Split


So it beats me... I'll do some more reading and report back.


@STR guys, sorry to hijack your thread, if you want a split, I will do so.... (like the pun btw :lol: ). However, whilst I continue the info out in the open about interleaving AC3 (which I assure you I was forcefully told that interleaving should really be 64/96 only for AC3 for whatever reason) [i'll look through doom9.org tomorrow], the issue about jerky playback is still a problem here.

I just played back and its still stuttering on me? Does this happen with your original?

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Last edited by spudthedestroyer on Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:15 pm  Post subject:
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Yes, it is aligned if it's at 32ms. I'll be glad to get ANY of those values, but I'm telling you, my NanDub ignores those settings. And from what I can see in the downloaded rips, this problem seems to be quite often.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 11:46 pm  Post subject:
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aha!!!! Bingo bango, sugar in the gas tank:
Code:
In cas you want to mux AC3 streams, the following seetings might be useful:

    * AC3 192kbit/s 2 Channels => Preload: 80ms Interleave every 80ms.
    * AC3 224kbit/s 2 Channels => Preload: 64ms Interleave every 64ms.
    * AC3 256kbit/s 2 Channels => Preload: 48ms Interleave every 48ms.
    * AC3 384kbit/s 6 Channels => Preload: 160ms Interleave every 160ms.
    * AC3 448kbit/s 6 Channels => Preload: 128ms Interleave every 128ms.
    * These settings might be just as good: AC3 with whatever bitrate and channels - PRELOAD 64ms - INTERLEAVE every 2 FRAMES! .


I guess that settles that! I had entered the wrong settings for my previous little test, correcting to a preload of 64ms, and interleaving every 64ms in nandub, gspot now reports the file as correctly aligned when I corrected the interleave setting on a 'split' movie.
Code:
--- File Information ---
File Name:            avalon.fix.avi
File Size:            655,804,416 bytes

--- Video Information ---
Video Codec Name:     DivX 4 (OpenDivX)
Duration:             00:54:08
Video Bitrate:        1162kb/s
Bits / Pixel:         0.193
Resolution:           608x412
Aspect Ratio:         1.48 / [31:21]
Frames Per Second:    23.976

--- Advanced ---
B-VOP:                B-VOP
QPel:                 No QPel
GMC:                  No GMC

--- Audio Information ---
No of Audio Streams:  1
Audio Codec:          0x2000(AC3, Dolby Laboratories, Inc) AC3
Audio Bitrate:        448kb/s CBR 48000 Hz
Audio Channel Count:  5
Interleave:           64ms
Preload:              64ms
Audio alignment:      Aligned


TDX are generalised as 64ms interleave. Enter 64ms for both settings and see if it syncs :)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:41 am  Post subject:
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EDIT: OK, I think my enthousiasm was a bit premature, so I decided to edit the whole post. Here is what happens:

1. Although I am able to fix some files using the above settings, GSpot still shows bad values. The only thing that changes is that it now shows aligned (how the hell is this possible?):
Code:
Interleave (in ms):                             40         
Preload (in ms):                                128       
Audio alignment("split across interleaves"):    Aligned


2. I am not able to correct some of the rips:
Code:
Interleave (in ms):                             42         
Preload (in ms):                                128       
Audio alignment("split across interleaves"):    Split


It's really starting to drive me crazy. :evil: And YES, I have ticked the right options. It seems only the preload changes, but this is enough to solve the "split across interleaves" problem.

Oh, btw: is there no difference between PAL and NTSC sources?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:11 am  Post subject:
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use 64ms/for both, and no, there's no difference, its to do with muxing into an avi container correctly I think.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:32 am  Post subject:
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I AM using 64 for both. It's one of the configurations I've tried.
I'm telling you, it only affects the preload.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:57 am  Post subject:
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spudthedestroyer wrote:
@STR guys, sorry to hijack your thread, if you want a split, I will do so.... (like the pun btw :lol: ). However, whilst I continue the info out in the open about interleaving AC3 (which I assure you I was forcefully told that interleaving should really be 64/96 only for AC3 for whatever reason) [i'll look through doom9.org tomorrow], the issue about jerky playback is still a problem here.

I just played back and its still stuttering on me? Does this happen with your original?


I learned lots of things in this thread :)

About the stuttering problem. Mine plays jerky too, PCA says his version is fine. I don't know for sure what may be the problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:04 am  Post subject:
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Yeah it's jerky on mine too....kind of a bummer :cry:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:41 am  Post subject:
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:( :( :(

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:12 am  Post subject:
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So is there a way this can be fixed?do you still got the original chad or is this a no go?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:16 am  Post subject:
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I previewed it with VLC player, and it looked fine. Every jerky file I've ever gotten played wonderful with VLC. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:42 am  Post subject:
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I've still got the source burned as a DVD-R. But that should still be on someone's FTP, too. Let me know what you need, and I'll see what I can do.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:56 am  Post subject:
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Works fine on my divx player and using ffdshow.

thanks Chad, AWESOME JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I laughed more than the first time.=)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:01 am  Post subject:
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Decypher wrote:
spudthedestroyer wrote:
@STR guys, sorry to hijack your thread, if you want a split, I will do so.... (like the pun btw :lol: ). However, whilst I continue the info out in the open about interleaving AC3 (which I assure you I was forcefully told that interleaving should really be 64/96 only for AC3 for whatever reason) [i'll look through doom9.org tomorrow], the issue about jerky playback is still a problem here.

I just played back and its still stuttering on me? Does this happen with your original?


I learned lots of things in this thread :)

About the stuttering problem. Mine plays jerky too, PCA says his version is fine. I don't know for sure what may be the problem.


Yeah, that's why I've kept quiet, I don't really know what to suggest :?
AFAIK it was encoded no differently to any other release, Tak have you got a DVD burner? if so, can you mail me the original Chadman DVD please mate?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:44 am  Post subject:
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Glad you liked it, satan. I'm pretty happy with the way it came out. And the music works really well. My best work, in my opinion, is the flashback scenes. Of course, the gore is a million times better with the sound effects.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:17 pm  Post subject:
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so, how to solve the problem??
i?m using ffdshow

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:58 pm  Post subject:
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thanks


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