Has anyone ever tried ripping the Faces of Death series, they'll really have you tearing your hair out if you're bothered about quality. They are a composite of film and telecine sequences and work out at about 50% film. IVTC doesn't work, nor does force film, with various combinations of filters. I had a chat to Dxa and video-man about it, but finally admitted defeat.

I'm having these issues with the 'Plaga Zombie' movies I'm ripping. Looks like the first one is genuine NTSC and needs to be encoded at 29,97 frames while the second one needs IVTC.

They should have that information on the cover to help rippers.

how about "Language must contain original language" as another classifier for higher quality?

That would exclude all dubs, even those into english, unless the original stream is included. I dunno, are people more tolerant of dubs than me?

IMO that depends on the movie. In some cases i rather have it in a language that i can't even understand as long as there are some decent subs. On the other hand in some cases it's just makes the movie a lot funnier to watch.

Cheers

I prefer English regardless of the original language although I would watch a subbed uncut version rather than a dubbed cut one. Maybe that's just me being Little Englander though

Zero tolerance here. Nothing gayer than dubbing IMO. Well, maybe cutting.

seconded here

well it wouldn't be banning the dubs, it would just be saying that it degrades the quality as much as bad cropping so they go in lower quality... it kind of does when you think of how much they can spoil a movie by watching a crap dub of it.

Spoilt loads of old martial arts movies watching them that way

But would unsubbed Korean for example be considered HQ despite being of limited or no use to anyone on this site? Everyone here speaks English as either a first or second language.

As it should be, yes, even though there are no subs, subs turn up particularly with kloofys filling in the asian subtitles. dubbed in english would go in lower quality as it should.

By the same logic your using, but changing the languages, dubbed german belongs in the higher quallity section, whereas original language and temporarily lacking subs does not. I can't agree with that.

Therefore it seems best to say all dubs, into english ro another language, go into lower quality as the audio is of poor quality professionally (bad audio author, just like we have bad visual author). it ruins the films most of the time unless your really tolerant.

The idea of it is, original language is always better than dubbing... and i share pcas and rogue's view on it personally, i don't recall the last time i watched a dub when it was my own choice.
I immediately cancel all dubs if i have the choice since their quality imo is compromised, I also really hate any rip/dvd where dubbing is the primary channel and original language is secondary. Infact i either remux them or get a properly done rip. It still baffles me why people do that, it seems really stupid and pointless to me, but then people always make weird decisions

Emule is German and I've accidentally downloaded a number of German rips by doing a mule search. I would expect to see these as HQ on a German website. Still, your site, your rules.

Do you propose that anything where the spoken language is not English should be clearly tagged as such though. Personally I prefer dubs to subs, but I would soon leave any website where the majority of stuff I was getting was unsubbed Italian.

I really don't understand what your saying, if its dubbed should you say its dubbed in the thread? yes, i would hope you mention its dubbed so people know what your getting. Its pretty obvious what the original language of movies should be, but it is a bright idea to state so in the thread... there's a reason release groups put it in their infos

what i'm not suggesting, which is common sense anyway and i don't understand why people don't do it, is that if the language is not the original it should say so in the filename. If its original language, then there's no point in saying its original language in a filename or anything.

I'm not imposing people doing that or anything of the sort; but as a comment on that it just seems retarded not to mention its dubbing... you piss a lot of people off by not doing this, as you'll know by downloading german dubs. However, that is besides the point, all i'm suggesting is that any dub for a movie should go in lower quality, if its in original language with subs then it goes in higher quality providing the rip quality is as it should be.

All i'm suggesting is that if you have a movie, say, Ringu, and that its dubbed into English, then it is inherantly of compromised quality and as such should be treated as such in the same way a poor quality source rip is placed. Some people have no problems, but then its kryptenite to others. So if dubbed in english goes into lower quality, whereas the same video quality of rip with original audio and subtitles would not.

I'm saying neither posting of dubs is prohibited or discouraged, just that they should be treated for what they are. I am also not suggesting that dubs into any other language other than english is ideal for this site, paritcularly english->another language, except in cases of extreme rarity.

Irrespective of whether subs are out or not, if someone posts a korean movie that doesn't have subs it won't be moved to lower quality and currently isn't (although its probably better in unverified until someone can provide english subs), just because there's no subs yet. ie. una de zombis or mucha sangre didn't go to the lower quality just because there wasn't subs. There are subs now.

If someone posts a dub of either movie then it is of lower quality than it would be with an original audio track, with the inherant suggestion that its not the best rip it can be because the audio has some pathetic voicework and the film is essentially slaughtered in the sound department.

This is irrespective of language, the point is original audio with subtitles is held in far higher regard amongst the majority of net downloaders in my experience. If you go through a lot of the major movie sites there's similar thinking (this rule is already in place regarding high / low quality splits at fh.org for example)

But this would for example:
http://forum.dead-donkey.com/viewtopic.php?t=10684
because its dubbed into spanish, it does not deserve to be in higher quality imo.

The idea is to be completely neutral about this, German dubbing is as bad as english dubbing, the general gist is dubbing is extremely crappy and really, really spoils it for people. Whereas with subs it might be a mild annoyance to you, to me dubbing is deplorable, and i think i can take the liberty of saying pca and rogue share that view.

Exceptions would have to be made for language neutral films (think european productions where they speak their natural language and the entire film is later dubbed for original release)

This is an english site, as such when we are classifying dubs as lower quality because of poor authoring (just like a video quality dvd maybe descriminated against to give it lower quality classification), it is implied that original language releases not in english would require subs if they are available.

Dubbing won't be banned or anything, its just treated for what it is.

That was the suggestion anyway, is that clearer fully explained?

It's clear what you are saying, I just disagree. I bought the UK DVD of Dario Argento's Terror at the Opera and fortunately realised it was Italian language with English subs before I opened the shrink wrap and managed to swap it for the R1, I would have preferred PAL, but I'd rather have an English dubbed NTSC.

I don't have a problem myself with the Rites of Frankenstein, it was clearly stated in the topic that it was Spanish. Nor do I have a problem with Nekromantik or the Untold Story where an English language version is not available, but I consider subs more than a mild annoyance, I have to concentrate on the subs rather than what's happening on screen, OK Nekromantik doesn't have a lot of dialogue and is a bad choice I guess.

As for subs becoming available, I asked for English subs for Cemetery of the Living Dead about a year ago. A second Italian rip has since been posted, still no sign of any subs.

I have no qualms about one of my rips being moved to LQ because it was a DVD mastered from a VHS, I think in the majority of cases that is where I have put them, one or two might have slipped the net. I would be thoroughly pissed off though if I produced a pristine DVD rip and it was moved to LQ, so much so I am considering pulling any future dubbed rips. I try to cater for speakers of as many languages as possible; all my rips come with all soundtracks and subs that are on the disc. English will always be the main language, if you want it in another language that I have provided then it's not hard to mux it, unlike a poorly mastered DVD where you are stuck with a LQ rip.

Although i don't share you're (Spud) entire point of view on this topic, I would say such a rule would make the choice of putting some in low of high quality section alot clearer. And also what to expect from these. And that's whats it all about i guess.
I have some movies in both dubbed and original versions and i enjoy both for some reason or another. Although i must say that like 80% of dubbed movies do suck IMO.
So a clearer view on what you can expect of a movie would help both sides i guess.
If you're lookin' for a dubbed version of a film look in the lower quality section. When the film is an in original language (other than english i guess) without subs it will go into the unverified section and if the movie is in it's original language other than english and has subs or is in plain English it should be in the high quality section.
That's clear as hell i would say. And yes downloading a movie which is dubbed without you knowing it is a real pain in the ass.

Cheers

What would you say if when you downloaded a rip there was just the ripper doing all the voices for the characters instead? That would be a bad rip, of exactly the same effect a dub has. There in lies the problem, a pristine dvdrip can not be dubbed, by its very definition you have pathetically inferior audio quality (come on, I have heard maybe one professional dub that doesn't completely ruin the movie), and the release does not match the theatrical original. You say subs are distracting, but dubs are way more distracting, and not only that, by keeping the language neutral everyone from around the world can enjoy it, whereas if you dub, your crapping the movie up just for the english/french/spanish/german.

For vhs its not going to make much difference if its dubbed anyway. I don't see why you'd hold out releasing a movie that people might want, just because your playing with a lower quality audio source though, don't let me discourage you.

Seems people support dubs more than i expected so i guess it shouldn't be implemented, i still really do not like spanish dubs in the higher quality section though, maybe its just me.

Obviously if a disc is English only then there's not a lot I can do about that.

I think this is a case of one man's meat being another's poison.

Personally I HATE dubs with a passion, they're (mainly) done by 4th rate actors and so any nuances of the performance are lost completely by the toneless, banal dub.
It ruins a film for me far more than slightly ropey picture quality. Then again I'm also very sensitive to synch issues, so it may be that I place higher importance on the sound than some.

I would fully support a move of dubbed movies to lower quality, but in the absence of a "proper" rip I'd rather have a dubbed version than nothing.

The "euro" productions are a mixed bag, AFAIK everyone spoke their native language then the bits needing dubs were dubbed for the relevant market. this is pretty much the only case I would argue for a film staying in the high quality section.

I absolutely agree with PCA. A dub into any language to me makes the rip LQ. That's regardless if the original language is English/German/Thai or Tok Pissin (I'm sure no one here speaks that one).Hence, I prefer the original language and deem only rips HQ which which have it (in case of dual audio as the default track).

There are of course some borderline cases like stated above - mostly European productions where it is difficult to judge what the original language is. These cases should be dealt with individually since we have lots of knowledgeable people here who can shed light on what to consider the 'original dub' of such a movie.

Also, the absence of English subs shouldn't make an otherwise percectly fine rip LQ.

I think this pretty much covers it for me.

It makes it worse than that, a lot of the time it makes it useless. It's one thing if the language and/or subs are German, French, Norwegian etc as we have a number of members from those countries here, but I doubt we have too many native Thai or Korean speakers. As I have already said if a forum were full of unsubbed foreign films I would leave, I just wouldn't see the point of staying.

That seems to be making out as though in those circumstances there is a dub out, if there's an asian movie that doesn't have subs its hugely more likely that there aint going to be a dub either. i don't know if you follow asian cinema but there's normally a year or so gap before it even reaches western shores, and increasingly, i'm very happy to say, they aren't dubbed! So that arguement is academic, besides the issue that i completely disagree with it even if it was applicable.

There its movie first, wait for subtitles... dubbing is never out until a year or so after (unless its cantonese->mandarin, or similar cross asian translation... that's just as annoying and lower quality as cantonese -> english)

I'd rather have the odd movie pending subtitles, which isn't too common at all, that have german, spanish, english dubs in higher quality which have no rightful claim to be there (as pca points out, crappy actors in a box). In the circumstances that's have actually happened when a rip has been posted without subs, there isn't even a dub available even if you wanted the movie butt raped, and in most cases, as is logical subtitles do turn up.

Your argument seems to cling to the fact that if there doesn't happen to be subs, then there's going to be a dub, but imo that's rarely applicable. It also clings to the fact that there is no original language version available when there is a dub, which is also not really that big a case.

Subs do appear, if not on release afterwards, and if your not aware, visit kloofy's subtitle site, its a collosal site for providing subs exclusively for asian movies.

The only instances where subs may not appear is for really rare vhs rips or ultra low budget movies, and there they are in lower quality anyway so once again, academic.

@PCA i don't think your hyper-sensitive to dubbing or anything, most movie lovers thing likewise, check out the attitude of other movie forums that aren't all about hollywood and its generally the same. Its only mass markets where dubs seem to cater for the lower classes, which is a typical trait of hollywood dimming down cinema for maximum market penetration. I guess the annoyance of sum for the addition of additional conservative viewers is what its about, $?$