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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:05 pm  Post subject: Concerning dubbed Movies
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Lo all, wanting your input on this. Its recently been brought up concerning dubs.

The current suggestions are:
  • An outright ban on all dubs into a non-english language. You may note whilst being an international board, its 'spoken language' is english, and as such, posting a german dub of an italian movie is not really wanted. The exception here would be rarity, if something is only available in a format such as this, then the posting should possibly be allowed in the low quality section.
  • English dubs should be put in low quality, with the exception of availability. Sometimes its simply too hard to get hold of original language and in these cases, there will be an exception.
  • Dual audio should stay, since it contains the original track (providing it does of course). Its preferable that its 1)original 2)dub and with subs, but this wouldn't be enforced

These points were raised with the posting of several dubs into languages from english. What say you? :lol:

These are obviously to promote:
  • Dubbing is shitty, although sometimes its unavoidable, the original language and subs are far more preferable.
  • Dubs aren't by any description high quality.
  • A german/spanish/french/italian dub is pointless posting.


Post your suggestions :)

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Last edited by spudthedestroyer on Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:48 pm  Post subject:
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The only thing I'd like to see is a clear indicator in the title that and how it is dubbed. Anything else I'd deem to much 'bureaucracy'.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:03 pm  Post subject:
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at first i was thinking of a new forum category (whassisname) named "Non-english language movies" where to put all original and dubbed foreign language movies. but on a second thought it's a bad idea cause it could divide the comunity into regional mini-comunities (=spread of sources).

so spud's directives are ok for me. i have a little doubt about the dual audio movies. maybe it's more clean to strip the non english-audio that is waste of bandwith for most of the people. then repost the new ed2k link.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:51 pm  Post subject:
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Personally I think if a movie is dubbed into English (no matter how badly) but is a pristine DVD rip then it should go in the HQ section regardless. I wouldn't watch anything in a foreign language because my French isn't good enough and I can't speak anything else at all, although that German zombie flick on the other side of Frozen Scream keeps tempting me :wacky:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:50 pm  Post subject:
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i think all dubbed movies should be marked as such in topic title and ed2k link but also think if non english, dubs should not be in the HQ section as this is a predominatly english speakin board

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:25 pm  Post subject:
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It is worth considering that with many Italian films, the Italian language audiotrack is not always the definitive way to watch the film. The films were made with post-synchronised sound with differant audio tracks recorded for differant markets...

For example: A lizard in a Womans Skin may well be an Italian film, but the English language version is the best way to watch the film (it is set in London, Stanley Baker and Florinda Balkan both recorded their lines in English in post-produciton.)

The point is often an english language version of a post-sync Italian film is the most authentic way to watch the film.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:47 pm  Post subject:
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I was overrulled, seems people are more tolerant of them than i was expecting. Quite flabbergasted by it infact.

Euro-Italian productions are the hardest ones and would probably have ended up being an exclusion since many of them have no original language :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:07 pm  Post subject:
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I agree with points 1 and 3, but I can't understand why a good DVD rip of an English dubbed Spanish movie (e.g.) should fall into LQ section just because it's dubbed. I strongly disagree with point 2.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:11 pm  Post subject:
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Malignus, how so? I assume your referring to:
Quote:
Dubs aren't by any description high quality.

They are out of sync are they not, dubbed with a lower quality mix and rarely are they superior to the original dub. That's certainly wiffing of poor quality production value to me.

The exception I was proposing was on when all languages were dubbed post, which is the case for a lot of famous italian movies. Otherwise the only thing that would sync with a persons mouth is the original audio, everything else is bad sync.

This thread is a 3 year bump btw, there's been more recent talk although i forget which thread.

edit:
http://forum.dead-donkey.com/viewtopic.php?t=13349

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:42 am  Post subject:
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I haven't got an issue with 1,2 and 3 just as long as the main priority before dubbing (which I often find very amusing) is that the film is in the form of its complete cut i.e. uncut, if this should mean its been dubbed from lets say Italian into German the most explicit or fullest version should take priority.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:24 am  Post subject:
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I don't think we'll ever split based on dub by the sound of it, whilst I think its friggin shite and can't bare to watch anything that's dubbed unless i really need to see it and would always take original language with subs, there's a couple of people that either don't mind or fully support dubbing. Best to leave it at excluding dubs into other languages ie. english to german, or italian to german, or italian to english to german to scottish to dutch to german, except in cases of extreme rarity or it not being found anywhere else in a non-raped format :)

Hey-ho

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:56 am  Post subject:
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IMO any dub --> LQ. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:46 pm  Post subject:
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spudthedestroyer wrote:
Malignus, how so? I assume your referring to:
Quote:
Dubs aren't by any description high quality.

They are out of sync are they not, dubbed with a lower quality mix and rarely are they superior to the original dub. That's certainly wiffing of poor quality production value to me.

The exception I was proposing was on when all languages were dubbed post, which is the case for a lot of famous italian movies. Otherwise the only thing that would sync with a persons mouth is the original audio, everything else is bad sync.


The HQ/LQ sections should help us to know whether the rip is good or bad. If you start to put every English dubbed European (e.g) flick in the LQ section, you'll make a mess because people won't know if a rip is of DVD quality or of VHS quality.
Besides, are there any Eurotrash fans who still can't bear the dubbing? After watching tens or hundreds of badly dubbed flicks everyone should be accustomed to it. At least that's what I think. ;)
Other thing is that some people actually prefer dubbed movies because they're too lazy to read the subtitles. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:03 pm  Post subject:
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Malignus wrote:
spudthedestroyer wrote:
Malignus, how so? I assume your referring to:
Quote:
Dubs aren't by any description high quality.

They are out of sync are they not, dubbed with a lower quality mix and rarely are they superior to the original dub. That's certainly wiffing of poor quality production value to me.

The exception I was proposing was on when all languages were dubbed post, which is the case for a lot of famous italian movies. Otherwise the only thing that would sync with a persons mouth is the original audio, everything else is bad sync.


The HQ/LQ sections should help us to know whether the rip is good or bad.


I'm glad we agree. Dubbing by very definition lower quality as it is out of sync and piss poorly done. Its below cropping, interlacing, ivtc, etc. in terms of defects, because it has a far higher abort rate than those visual defects. Its like audio sync, people find it intolerable, dubbing is like that amplified :(

A dub is a bad rip, because the source is trashed. I always delete them in favour of original language, obviously not where there's no original language (ie lots of italian movies), and i would watch a badly interlaced, no ivtc or badly cropped rip over a dubbed version. They are minor ripping flaws, but dubbing is major source flaw for me. Its intolerable 9 times out of ten, I'm not saying its unwelcomed over nothing at all before people warp that, but I have a high abort rate and they are deleted immediately when original audio rips come out, just like I do with flawed rips because it is. Okay its not the rippers fault but its hardly "DVD quality" if the audio is messed up (well unless the mad man/woman/machine actively chose to dub it, then i'm just baffled).

The only exceptions are some very, very high quality dubs, italian 'euro-trash' movies with no original dub (they tend to spend more on localisation here because its a post-edit necessity for the editor and director, whereas its a mere localisation issue on other films which is why they are so terrible), and animated movies where they don't sync.

So your saying, at the base of it, if i muxed in an audio track of me going "MEH MEH MEH MEH" for 90mins (which is infact a lot less annoying than well over half the dubs i've heard), its higher quality and audio doesnt matter? Even though its suffering from audio rape by me doing a Richard and Judy impression? :)

Dubbing should be something that's left to the end peer, if we have a choice. The concept is behind saying if you get something from higher, its a well sourced, well made, well ripped and original pristine copy, lower quality is defects where you have to tolerate the flaws based on the rarity or unavailability of a source/rip of better quality. There's a bit of leeway for people, and i'm very pleased with how people are using the split, everyone seems very critical and considerate of how to use the sections :beerchug:


I think you'll find lower/higher are browsed indescriminantly anyway, but there's the concept of "something could be better" with the rips in there, its not like the sections at other sites where its a dumping ground for shit rips or movies that are widely available. Its an unfortunate defect we have to live with that rips that are 'nuked' (technically dubbing is a nuke, but tdx is pretty meaningless here) in that section. :)

The whole dubbed/not dubbed is how its implemented at sites like fileheaven.org

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:41 pm  Post subject:
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Spud's saved me a lot of typing, so I'm gonna say: +1 :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:27 pm  Post subject:
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Just incase that doesn't translate into non-english languages:
Quote:
abort rate

= the stop button

Quote:
minor ripping flaws,


= obviously they have a big impact on how it looks, but you can filter and get the picture watchable, even if its not as good as it woulda-shoulda-coulda

Quote:
Richard and Judy


= high pitched moaning

Quote:
end peer,


= the subset of downloaders, ie dubbing chumps :)

Quote:
Dubbing


= cancer of the aids of the rectum

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:07 am  Post subject:
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OK. I got your point, Spud. In this case I vote for creating a separate DVD quality section for dubbed movies only. It's a much better idea than moving all of the dubbed movies into the LQ bin.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:54 am  Post subject:
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Really? Wouln't the new section just be a "ghetto" section though?

I agree that it would help avoid the abominations that are dubbed movies.

Maybe you have a point, a shit bin where movies that have been destroyed due to stupid ripping decisions and are therefore easily ignored - Sounds good to me :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:39 pm  Post subject:
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i thought that's what the fake/invalid/dead section was! :lol:

One too many sections I think though, although ideally moving flawed rips out of lower quality would be great for boosting the rare stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:16 pm  Post subject:
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I said enough about this last time and I'm not going over old ground again, but I have two more comments.

1. I and some others prefer English language. Some mates have said it depends on the type of film, English being better for action movies with a lot of stuff going on on the screen where subs can be a distraction, but subs being preferable for arty stuff where it's not so much a distraction. It's a matter of personal choice and I don't think either side should force their views on others. IMO there are worse crimes, interlacing for example looks like a bag of shite, OK it could be transcoded but that's more hassle than having to mux in a separate audio track, and can only ever be the fault of a poor ripper, choice of language is often determined by what is on the DVD.

2. Following previous discussions if I were to rip a movie now that had both OL and an English dub on the disc, it would have dual audio, probably 1/6 DVD, that way everyone is happy. English language would be the primary track, IIRC some people insisted the OL should be primary or even that the dub should be a separate audio track, I don't see this is a problem myself, even Windows media player supports multiple tracks. More often than not though the sort of stuff I rip is really obscure bare bones DVD or VHS so I don't have the option.

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