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CD vs DVD standards: update for DVD
Support the idea 82%  82%  [ 40 ]
Prefer CD sizes 18%  18%  [ 9 ]
Don't have capability of burning DVDr/I'm a ludite 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 49
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:18 pm  Post subject: Current Gen rip filesizes
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As you might have noticed some of the better rippers have started abandoning the archaic TDX guidelines in favour of some more modern and applicable rules for quality.

One of these is regarding filesizes and updating them to fill up the extra wasted space on DVDrs. As you'll all be abundantly clear if you burn 6 700mb rips to a dvd you get lots of wasted space. People who re-encode or join will also know that splits are often pretty craply done so there's either overlapping sequences or the audio goes out of sync.

So some of the better rippers are now ripping with filesizes relating to DVDrs not cds. Infact gknot supports the idea of these more appropriate filesizes (1/6rd, 1/3rd, etc. dvds).

Anyway, just wondering what people think?

1/6th a dvd is 747mb (1cd rip equivalent)
1/3rd a dvd is 1494mb (2cd rip equivalent)
1/2 a dvd is 2231mb (4cd rip equivalent)
a dvd is 4482mb (big ass rip, hdtv friendly i guess, only thing you'd want to spend this much on :lol:).

The rips are then unsplit and are a single file release.

There is a thread here for those that have access:
http://fileheaven.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35331

Here's an example of a large single DVDr friendly rip:
http://forum.dead-donkey.com/viewtopic.php?t=10414

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:47 pm  Post subject:
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well a couple things to factor in

1. does the person have the upload speed to do 1 gig or 2 gig uploads constantly

and

2. who doesn't have a dvd burner yet

i do get about 6 or 7 avis on a dvdr but depends on size of avi like for a season of 24 of 11 episodes i can get on a dvdr cause they were around 300k or so.

there is some space left on a dvdr but nothing to worry about of wasting space

but i am all for any desition is made

i am all for better size and better bit rate higher pixal

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:00 pm  Post subject:
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well i have no need of the cdr sizes, that's my thinking. The only reason I do it at 700mb is for the convienance of others.

Yet it still strikes me that I also keep the rip basic and avoid advanced features and reduce the filesize for the same reason.

With horror movies, most of the time, even if its a long movie, it tends to be smart to do a 1cd. A lot of low budget, rare and trashy movies means that its suited to a smaller filesize, but even then 747mb gives the dvdr shaped rip.

If you are a ludite, there's still the option to buy a 90/99min disk and burn to that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:26 pm  Post subject:
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video-man wrote:
well a couple things to factor in

1. does the person have the upload speed to do 1 gig or 2 gig uploads constantly

and

2. who doesn't have a dvd burner yet


Would have to go with that for one.

I have the urge to download mostly 700mb movies. If i really liked the movie i often buy it. If i like it but not that much, i'll try and find a better rip (if nessecary and possible).
From the list you set up would chose 1/3rd a dvd is 1494mb (2cd rip equivalent).
I also agree with Video-man on the fact that i'm not bothered by the empty space left on a dvd-r. The cheap as they come these days.

If it fits at good quality on one cdr why would you make it larger? IMHO if it needs more space give it more space.


:beerchug:

(For obvious reasons i didn't vote.)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:10 pm  Post subject:
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Well I don't understand how 1 factors in that much, they'd be uploading the 2cds either way, this way they can infact minimise bandwidth and use part sharing to assure that only single parts of the whole file are sent out a lot more efficiently if they use those features of emule/torrent.

I don't think a slight increase in size is a negative, they will be uploading the same anyway, but now there's the bonus of cd2 not dying and splitting management over two files as opposed to one.

I tend to go for 700mb rips when downloading only because they are standard, change the standard and its easy to take the view that 700mb rips are older standard conforming but likely to be good, 745mb is a brand new rip and likely to be better quality :) Other filesizes are likely to be problematic, or rather via a poor ripping method. I know this is completely unfounded, except for experience, but unfortunately my experience is pretty consistent about undersized, greatly oversized rips.

Quote:
If it fits at good quality on one cdr why would you make it larger? IMHO if it needs more space give it more space.


Ripping is a compromise, the issue is that 700mb was an arbitary and antequated choice of filesize, chosen merely because way back when, cd was the only media size available. A lot of rips really need more, but you tone it down to compromise to the media format and bandwidth.

I don't think i'd bother with 745mb filesize myself. I'll stick with 700mb rips since the digestable, and since its horror movies as covered above, it tends to be a decent enough filesize.

The 1/3rd filesize rpi one i will probably rip as as opposed to 1400mb though in future. Simply because splitting has lots of drawbacks, I don't think that it optimises releasing, often one or the other files dry up and its good just have a 1 file rip, it utilises the wasted space, and it also means that you don't have to join.

The idea is to increase the size we are compromising the rip to, to a media type that's actually suitable for 2006.

The notion is that CDr is dead, or dying and the only reason that we conform to 700mb is that it was written down in TDX, and used by release groups, and this was only for the fact that back then CDr was the format. Its not particularly any real substantial quality algorithm or anything to justify 700mb, it was just the size at the time. TDX whilst making quality kind of standard also sets to hold groups back. This is the same reason rippers don't use features that can increase the quality of the rip as of the latest version since people have some rather dated playback methods that simply can't handle it.

TDX will eventually abandon 700mb, you can be assured of this, but they are very, very, very slow and way behind on a lot of aspects.

Anyway, that's kind of my view on it, that I won't be ripping as a 2cd anymore and will use the 1/3rd dvd single file instead.

I guess the notion is that what would you view on adopting a more appropriate filesize standard?
Woudl you not download a rip of this standard?
Are you capable/incapable of using this standard?

I think the pluses outweigh the negative, although 745mb is a bit more flakey support, releasing a single large file I am very in favour of.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 pm  Post subject:
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Finally!! Support. I think this is a great idea.

1/6 = 746
1/5 = 896
1/4 = 1120
1/3 = 1493 (closest to 2 cd rip versions)
max = 2GB

I support this 100%!!!

Incidently for Xbox users.... you might have noticed that you can not read dvd's that have files on them that are larger than a gig? Well think again there is a flag in the xml file you can turn on to fix this problem...

Set "<detectasiso>" to "yes".

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:24 pm  Post subject:
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Jynks wrote:

Incidently for Xbox users.... you might have noticed that you can not read dvd's that have files on them that are larger than a gig? Well think again there is a flag in the xml file you can turn on to fix this problem...

Set "<detectasiso>" to "yes".


I've never had that problem, although I've had another which that might fix :)

Thanks

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:26 pm  Post subject:
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PC_Arcade wrote:
Jynks wrote:

Incidently for Xbox users.... you might have noticed that you can not read dvd's that have files on them that are larger than a gig? Well think again there is a flag in the xml file you can turn on to fix this problem...

Set "<detectasiso>" to "yes".


I've never had that problem, although I've had another which that might fix :)

Thanks


If you are burning as "iso9660" you might not notice this error.. mainly for people who burn as "UDF".

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:37 pm  Post subject:
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I think it's a good idea, waste of space is well... a waste and about anybody owns a DVD burner nowadays. 1 dvd is cheaper than 6 cdrs too. Also takes less space so if someone doesn't own a burner yet it would be a good investment to get one.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:51 pm  Post subject:
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spudthedestroyer wrote:
well i have no need of the cdr sizes, that's my thinking. The only reason I do it at 700mb is for the convienance of others.


same here,when I rip a film for myself,it's almost always at least 1400 meg nowadays

I can live with putting 3 movies on 1 dvd :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:00 pm  Post subject:
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the two people that should post something have just voted and run off :lol:

Any reason why you oppose the idea of not splitting a '2cd' rip?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:05 pm  Post subject:
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I will, I voted for CD sizes and have twice written and deleted my posts :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:01 am  Post subject:
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What about 1/4 (1120 MB) ?? I'm always using this size when I'm ripping only for myself. For example for 80-90 minute films you can have good quality video and AC3 sound. You can also make 1120 MB rip for longer movies but only with mp3 sound. This way you can fit 4 high quality movies on a single DVD.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:22 am  Post subject:
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I voted for DVD sizes, I have been thinking for a while that 2 CD rips are wrong in this day and age and was going to post something myself about this, I'm a lazy bugger though and never got round to it :oops:

Note to any luddites that disagree, you can get a DVD burner for well under 50 and 25 Verbatim DVD-R's are going for 6 in Sainsburys.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:54 am  Post subject:
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we could calculate the amount of burned CD-Rs after which it's cheaper to switch to DVD-R.
we need: price of one CD-R (say priceCDR), price of one DVD-R (say priceDVDR), price of one DVD-R burner (say priceBurner). all these including shipping etc.
we dont keep into the calculation the price of the CD-R burner, as we're talking about a legacy situation and we have to calculate the costs from now on.
then we have to find the least number of CD-Rs (say nCDR) so that:

nCDR * priceCDR > (nCDR/6) * priceDVDR + priceBurner


so, if one plans to burn more than ( priceBurner / (priceCDR - ( priceDVDR/6 ) ) ) CD-Rs, then switching to DVD-Rs becomes cheaper.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:01 am  Post subject:
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How many people stitch together there 2 cd avi's into a single file for backups to "best of..." etc?

YES
NO
I DELETE THEM

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:36 am  Post subject:
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I voted no, but I have now read more carefully and I saw that I misunderstood it. I support the idea as well. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:40 pm  Post subject:
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So I voted in favour of the idea.
IMHO the 1/4 = 1120mb and 1/3rd = 1494mb are the best choices to be made and yes i would download a rip of this standard.

Also the advantages mentioned by Spud utilizing wasted space, no drying up, no need to join several files together... i think those are good arguments to choose for this filesize. Although i personally never did join files together. I just put them both in my playlist.

"With horror movies, most of the time, even if its a long movie, it tends to be smart to do a 1cd"

On the other hand i would have to go with the above purely for releasing reasons i would say.

Cheers :beerchug:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:55 pm  Post subject:
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Quote:
I voted no

Well who else did and what were your reasons?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:00 pm  Post subject:
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Jynks wrote:
Quote:
I voted no

Well who else did and what were your reasons?


That's something i would like to know aswell.

1 out of 4 is a real NO. Another 1 actually is a YES. What about the other two?

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