Why not register?


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]

Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:50 am  Post subject: Bad news for Finland
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Demon Of The Abyss
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 7:18 pm
Posts: 1426
Location: A padded cell
I know we have a number of Finnish members here and this is very bad news.

Quote:
Finnish Parliament approved today a controversial new copyright legislation, based on European Union's Copyright Directive (EUCD). The legislation sparked enormous opposition from worried citizens, but despite the public critique even in mainstream media, the parties currently in coalition government decided to approve the legislation without further modifications.

Legislation has several confusing details and extremely badly worded chapters, making it one of the most draconian versions of EUCD in Europe. Once Finland's president (who has right to veto the law, but the right is used extremely rarely) approves the legislation, it will come into effect, typically within few months.

As Finland has traditionally enjoyed quite relaxed copyright legislation, the change is dramatic. Previously, copying for own personal use (whether you owned the CD/DVD/book/whatever) was perfectly legal and the authors were compensated by blank media levy. Now, the blank media levy will remain in place, but at least the following things will change:

Circumventing copy protections, even for personal use, will be illegal. (it states so in the law, even tho the government tried to argue that the right wont be pursued by government, but nothing stops record labels, movie studios, etc to do so)
Distributing (even for free) tools (whether physical devices or software) that allow circumventing copy protection mechanisms will be illegal. (this includes DVD rippers, tools that allow copying copy-protected CDs, etc)
Advertising tools that allow circumventing copy protection mechanisms will be illegal. (and the law doesn't state how advertising is determined. So, basically simply linking to a page that has DVD ripper downloads from your own site can be considered "advertising")
Possession of tools that allow circumventing copy protection mechanisms will be illegal. Even for personal use.
Guides on how to circumvent copy protection mechanisms can be considered as "tools" and thus are also illegal.
Worryingly, even "organized discussion" on how to circumvent copy protection mechanisms, will be illegal. (and no, Finland doesn't have similar to American Supreme Court that determines whether laws are against constitution, but when laws are approved, they by default are in harmony with constitution and can't be later overturned on basis that they are un-constitutional)

Ironically, Finnish education minister, Ms. Tanja Karpela, argued that "only 1 percent of current music CDs include copy protection mechanisms", thus making the legislation invisible to users. However, she forgot to mention that virtually 100 percent of DVDs do have copy protection and therefor the former right to backup and copy DVDs will disappear. Also, by using at least some level of logic, one can assume that once breaking copy-protection mechanisms will be illegal, most new CDs will feature such mechanism.

So, basically -- buy a portable MP3 player and a copy-protected CD. And you can't copy the music from the CD to your MP3 player legally any more, as you'd break law if you circumvent the copy protection mechanism found on CD.

And the whole legislation is quite close to us -- AfterDawn.com is a Finnish company. So, compare the legislation and what you can find from our site and you probably see certain problem there..

_________________
I hate people... and they hate me!


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:04 am  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

The Ancient One
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Posts: 4096
Location: Somewhere between dimensions, waiting.
Holy shit. Some of that is worrying. They either thought and planned this to be how it was, or they have no fucking idea, either way the outcome was pants.

_________________
FIRST SEAL BRINGS PESTILENCE.
Small Time Rippers - 2003-2008 - R.I.P.
'Do I look like someone who cares what God thinks?'
Image


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:09 am  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Mod of the Living Dead
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:16 pm
Posts: 6898
Location: Desolation
It was bound to happen, you want to trade with the US you have to sign up to the laws the US media companies have bought.

_________________
Small Time Rippers : 2003 - 2008 R.I.P :(


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:17 am  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Lunatic Of Gods Creation
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:51 pm
Posts: 1017
this is a bit over the top
theoretically it means if I were to mail some sort of audio/video copy prog to a Finnish person & he or she opens that mail,they can put them in jail


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:01 am  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Mod of the Living Dead
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:16 pm
Posts: 6898
Location: Desolation
It's the same law that the UK signed up to and most of the rest of europe, there's a list at http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/EUCD-Status

_________________
Small Time Rippers : 2003 - 2008 R.I.P :(


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:08 am  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Demon Of The Abyss
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 7:18 pm
Posts: 1426
Location: A padded cell
The same law yes but the implementation looks much harsher, I don't think we're breaking the law to use DVD Decrypter, not as far as I know anyway.

_________________
I hate people... and they hate me!


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:47 am  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

The Ancient One
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Posts: 4096
Location: Somewhere between dimensions, waiting.
Bollocks, I just keep doing what I do until I can no longer do it. Half the copies I have I own anyways, it is actually a great idea to backup all my shit.

_________________
FIRST SEAL BRINGS PESTILENCE.
Small Time Rippers - 2003-2008 - R.I.P.
'Do I look like someone who cares what God thinks?'
Image


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:50 am  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Mod of the Living Dead
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:16 pm
Posts: 6898
Location: Desolation
George Tatum wrote:
I don't think we're breaking the law to use DVD Decrypter, not as far as I know anyway.


You certainly are, under the EUCD implementation in the UK circumvention of copy protection is illegal (This AFAIK is the same for every country that signs up to it), even where there are legitamate reasons such as Blind people removing protection from certain documents to enable them to be read with screen readers.

The EUCD is a draconian piece of legislation, it's worse even than the DMCA in the states, at least there they have "Fair use" protected under law, the UK has no such exemption, it's illegal in this country to purchase a CD then copy it to your MP3 player. The legal route is to buy it twice, once for the home and once in mp3 format for the ipod (3 times if you want a copy in the car too).

_________________
Small Time Rippers : 2003 - 2008 R.I.P :(


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:00 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Demon Of The Abyss
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:01 pm
Posts: 1130
So if you sing a song, you could get sued? Since you're copying the music from copyprotected cd's to someone elses ears who didn't pay for it.
And if you get tired of your neighbours you can just turn on the stereo and accuse them of stealing your honest paid music?

/me plays Judas Priest - Breaking the Law, You'd better close your ears I paid for it :matrix:

_________________
Got milk?


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:14 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

The Ancient One
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Posts: 4096
Location: Somewhere between dimensions, waiting.
I never realised that whole "buying" thing was still going.

_________________
FIRST SEAL BRINGS PESTILENCE.
Small Time Rippers - 2003-2008 - R.I.P.
'Do I look like someone who cares what God thinks?'
Image


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:36 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Site Admin
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:35 am
Posts: 19780
Location: En España
This is why politicians should never be allowed an all access pass to make legislation.

Given the amount of corruption and just plain ignorance of the subject, they still have votes on matters without proper consultation.

The courts and a academic debate is surely a better way to get clear and unbias legislation. I question the intelligence of the ministers action in this instance.

_________________
Mouse nipple for the win! Trackpoint or death!


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:24 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

The Ancient One
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Posts: 4096
Location: Somewhere between dimensions, waiting.
Quote:
This is why politicians should never be allowed an all access pass to make legislation.


This we already know.

Quote:
Given the amount of corruption and just plain ignorance of the subject, they still have votes on matters without proper consultation.


I tend to lean mostly towards ignorance.

Quote:
The courts and a academic debate is surely a better way to get clear and unbias legislation. I question the intelligence of the ministers action in this instance.


Well, that is common sense to me and you, but unfortunately we do not run the country.............................YET!!!

_________________
FIRST SEAL BRINGS PESTILENCE.
Small Time Rippers - 2003-2008 - R.I.P.
'Do I look like someone who cares what God thinks?'
Image


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:48 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Site Admin
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:35 am
Posts: 19780
Location: En España
Quote:
I tend to lean mostly towards ignorance.


I would too, but i was thinking of america and countries like italy where they're having big problems with corruption charges. You know the types of decision, the one that immediately invokes the "how the f*ck did this decision happen?" response. Then you look at the contributions made to the senator/party and it kind of clicks how they were lobbied.

As for the academic debates suggestion, i really do mean that people who know the subject are the ones that are debating it. There's the problem of unelected officials you might raise, ie. who voted for the academics? as a form of arguement. The retort is simple, who voted for Jack Straw? Even if you vote labour, only a really small subset vote who specifically you choose... and I mean, we didn't elect Tony Blair, we elected labour (not me but i'm speaking collectively) or rather our local district did on our behalf, and then labour selected tony blair. So why not just stop all this bullshit and putting in people we didn't vote for to make decisions we don't support, and just let people who academically have proven their intelligence and capacity to debate these issues accurately and without so much ignorance to the issues.

As a plus, I'm sure in an academic debate, they'd also come up with a fair voting system since they don't have their own self interests in regard as parties do now, ie. my vote should be counted as a vote for whoever i vote for, not counted and then supressed when the local borough gets more votes for another party.

grrr... :)

_________________
Mouse nipple for the win! Trackpoint or death!


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:07 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

The Devil, Probably
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2250
Location: C.L.R.'s Grave, Hackensack, NJ
That is the stinkiest crock of shit ever! (Not you spud, I'm reefering to the original post) Not having Fair Use is a shame, to understate. At least they can still get stuff illegally. Black Markets will always stand firm. I will NEVER pay for an mp3, that would be against my code of standards. Discman sales in Finland are gonna skyrocket!

_________________
SO BAD ITS GOOD! [bad-good.org]
Watch tits and gore and creepy dudes and pull out yer teeth and burn sensitive areas and drown while crying and fart babies!


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:23 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
Offline

Buried In The Backyard
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:46 pm
Posts: 32
I fail to see, why anybody should have the right at all to tell me, what I am allowed to do and what not - elected or not, intelligent or not. :twisted:

BTW: In the case MPAA vs. The-Realworld.de, a German court ruled, that ed2k links to copyrighted material are illegal.

Info in German: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/64363


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:37 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Site Admin
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:35 am
Posts: 19780
Location: En España
hagbard wrote:
I fail to see, why anybody should have the right at all to tell me, what I am allowed to do and what not - elected or not, intelligent or not. :twisted:


Yeah, you and charlie manson will agree on that one i'm sure. :mrgreen:

I don't speak german so don't know what that article said, but i didn't know they even took the-realworld.de to court. I was sure i read it was settled out of court.

_________________
Mouse nipple for the win! Trackpoint or death!


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:08 am  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

The Ancient One
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:28 pm
Posts: 4096
Location: Somewhere between dimensions, waiting.
At the end of the day, regardless of laws, we all do some dodgy shit on eMule and BT. We know the risks, we get caught we get electrodes on the nuts.

At the end of the day I got no problem with the music and film companies catching the smegs that make huge numbers of copies and fund whatever. Me, I use it more as a preview service, if I like a film I buy it on DVD.

Music is a little diferrent for me, I never bought albums to start with, all that cash for 2 good songs, no fucking way. Nah, afraid I always have copied music, even when I was a small child and used a tape recorder next to the radio speaker LOL

Fucking A, I was born a pirate, that is so fucking sweet.

@Spud, I think that was more wishful thinking on my behalf. I know half the decisions would be based on a certain "donations", guess I would like to see brains and common sense win out, prolly not gonna happen. Look what happened the last time a smart man with plans got in power, WWII.

_________________
FIRST SEAL BRINGS PESTILENCE.
Small Time Rippers - 2003-2008 - R.I.P.
'Do I look like someone who cares what God thinks?'
Image


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:23 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
Offline

Buried In The Backyard
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:46 pm
Posts: 32
spudthedestroyer wrote:
Yeah, you and charlie manson will agree on that one i'm sure.

Oh, I thought, Manson actually had some quite authoritarian ideas. Whatever: There certainly are some more people, who would agree with me. :mrgreen:

spudthedestroyer wrote:
I don't speak german so don't know what that article said, but i didn't know they even took the-realworld.de to court. I was sure i read it was settled out of court.

No, it was in court all right, in the district court of Hamburg. And the court ruled, that it didn?t matter, that the movies (TV shows) were not hosted by TRW, but that by merely listing the ed2k links, the site was helping people to illegally download copyrighted material. The court also ruled, that the provider of the TRW server is accountable as well, because he refused to block the site, what the MPAA had asked him to do. The amount in dispute (is that correct / good English ? :wacky: ) was set at 150.000 Euro.

Sorry, but I didn?t find any info in English ...

TaKYoN wrote:
I would like to see brains and common sense win out, prolly not gonna happen. Look what happened the last time a smart man with plans got in power, WWII.

Now I am really looking forward to your explaination, what the plans of this "smart man" had to do with "brains and common sense". Tell you what: WWII was unavoidable as soon as he started putting his "plans" into action ... plans, that were roughly about conquering & ruling, controlling & exterminating ... you know, how WWII started, do you ??


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:35 am  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Will Tear Your Soul Apart
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:55 am
Posts: 588
Location: The Wonderland
I know, how it started!

They started it! They invaded Poland!

Image

_________________
I am The Changer of Ways!


Top
 Profile  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:02 pm  Post subject:
Reply with quote
User avatar
Offline

Site Admin
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:35 am
Posts: 19780
Location: En España
well, if you want to tally it official, Britain declared war on Germany, not the other way round ;)
Therefore, the british and french officially started the war.

But this is stupidly offtopic people :wacky:

_________________
Mouse nipple for the win! Trackpoint or death!


Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

All times are UTC [ DST ]

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


Moderator: Help Mods

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Frontpage / Forums / Scifi


What's blood for, if not for shedding?