Beginners Guide To Ripping With Gordian Knot

Slayer

Running a comptest on my next release gave a result of 136.6%, which seems a tad too much to me. I can't increase the res as it will result in a zoom which is too big. I already have AC3 sound.

Should I just rip it like this, or is there any other way to reduce the percentage?

elguaxo

There is always a higher bitrate matrix or better settings to try. Have you read this (and following posts): viewtopic.php?p=186298#p186298

What settings are you using for Xvid? What matrix?

Try HEINI_MR and only 1 B-Vop:

Code:

FIRST PASS SETTINGS                           SECOND PASS SETTINGS
|                                             |
+--- Profile@Level / More / Profile           +--- Profile@Level / More / Profile
|    |                                        |    |
|    +--- Quant Type         : HEINI_MR       |    +--- Quant Type         : HEINI_MR
|    +--- Adaptive quant     : No             |    +--- Adaptive quant     : No
|    +--- Quarter Pixel      : No             |    +--- Quarter Pixel      : No
|    +--- GMC                : No             |    +--- GMC                : No
|    |                                        |    |
|    \--- B-VOPs                              |    \--- B-VOPs
|         |                                   |         |
|         +--- Max bvops       : 1            |         +--- Max bvops       : 1
|         +--- quant ratio     : 1.62         |         +--- quant ratio     : 1.62
|         \--- quant offset    : 0.00         |         \--- quant offset    : 0.00
|                                             |
+--- Encoding Type: Twopass - 1st Pass        +--- Encoding Type: Twopass - 2nd Pass
|                                             |
+--- Encoding Type / More / 2nd Pass          +--- Encoding Type / More / 2nd Pass
|    |                                        |    |
|    +--- I-frame boost  : 10                 |    +--- I-frame boost  : 10
|    +--- I-frames closer: 1                  |    +--- I-frames closer: 1
|    +--- are reduced by : 20                 |    +--- are reduced by : 20
|    |                                        |    |
|    +--- Overflow treatment                  |    +--- Overflow treatment
|    |    |                                   |    |    |
|    |    +--- control strength: 5            |    |    +--- control strength: 5
|    |    +--- max improvement : 5            |    |    +--- max improvement : 5
|    |    \--- max degradation : 5            |    |    \--- max degradation : 5
|    |                                        |    |
|    \--- Curve compression                   |    \--- Curve compression
|         |                                   |         |
|         +--- high br degradation: 20        |         +--- high br degradation: 20
|         \--- low br improvement : 7         |         \--- low br improvement : 7
|                                             |
+--- Zones                                    +--- Zones
|    |                                        |    |
|    +--- Start frame        : 0              |    +--- Start frame        : 0
|    +--- Quantizer          : 2              |    +--- Weight             : 1.00
|    +--- Cartoon Mode       : No             |    +--- Cartoon Mode       : No
|    +--- Chroma optimizer   : Yes            |    +--- Chroma optimizer   : Yes
|    \--- BVOP sensitivity   : 0              |    \--- BVOP sensitivity   : 0
|                                             |
+--- Preset / More / Motion                   +--- Preset / More / Motion
|    |                                        |    |
|    +--- Search precision    : 5             |    +--- Search precision    : 6
|    +--- VHQ mode            : 1             |    +--- VHQ mode            : 4
|    +--- VHQ for bframes     : No            |    +--- VHQ for bframes     : Yes
|    +--- Chroma motion       : No            |    +--- Chroma motion       : Yes
|    \--- Turbo               : Yes           |    \--- Turbo               : No
|                                             |
\--- Preset / More / Quantization             \--- Preset / More / Quantization
     |                                             |
     +--- Min/Max quants: irrelevant               +--- Min I-frame quant: 2
     |                                             +--- Max I-frame quant: 4
     \--- Trellis quantization: Yes                +--- Min P-frame quant: 2
                                                   +--- Max P-frame quant: 5
                                                   +--- Min B-frame quant: 2
                                                   +--- Max B-frame quant: 6
                                                   |
                                                   \--- Trellis quantization: Yes

Slayer

Xvid Settings are:

2 B-Vop
1.30 quant ratio

I'm using Jawors 1 cd matrix.

elguaxo

Try the settings I posted above. Jawor's 1CD is not bad, but it's more like a last resort for movies with bad compressibility which is not your case.

Slayer

OK, with your settings and the Heini matrix the result is 106%. Good enough for me.

elguaxo

Comptests are not exact. If you get an undersize after doing the actual rip, then switch to 6of9 (linked some posts earlier).

Edit: or keep Heini_Mr and 0 B-VOPs

Slayer

OK, will do.

Slayer

It came out zoomed in, therefore missing several lines on top. Retry tonight.

Slayer

It came out undersized, so retried with 0 (zero) B-Vops. Now it came out oversized. *Sigh*

elguaxo

. Try 1B-VOP and 6of9.

BTW, MCMLXXXVIII and you now are handling very compressible and tricky sources, so xvid's ratecontrol gets a bit crazy. It wouldn't hurt if you post the DRF stats of your unsuccessful encodes (see AVINaptic link and instructions some posts earlier).

Slayer

You mean the GKnot.log files? I only have one left (I had lack of HDD space and deleted all old attempts, including their logfiles).

elguaxo

No, I mean the AVINaptic DRF Stats: viewtopic.php?p=186298#p186298

Slayer

OK, here we go. First attempt:

Code:

[ About file ]

Name: VTS_02_0_X_2A.avi
Date: 4/07/2008 09:39:41
Size: 693,483,520 bytes (661.357 MB)

[ Generic infos ]

Play duration: 01:14:46 (4485.6 s)
Container type: AVI OpenDML
Number of streams: 2
Type of stream nr. 0: video
Type of stream nr. 1: audio
Audio streams: 1
ISFT: VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.2 (build 2540/release)
JUNK: VirtualDubMod build 2540/release

[ Relevant data ]

Resolution: 640 x 416
Width: multiple of 32
Height: multiple of 32
Average DRF: 3.049081
Standard deviation: 0.965444
Std. dev. weighted mean: 0.170274

[ Video track ]

FourCC: xvid/XVID
Resolution: 640 x 416
Frame aspect ratio: 20:13 = 1.538461
Pixel aspect ratio: 1:1 = 1
Display aspect ratio: 20:13 = 1.538461
Framerate: 25 fps
Number of frames: 112140
Stream size: 580,394,949 bytes
Bitrate: 1035.125644 kbps
Qf: 0.155517
Key frames: 909 (0; 240; 480; 720; 742; ... 111951)
Null frames: 0
Min key int: 1
Max key int: 240
Avg key int: 123.366336
Delay: 0 ms

[ Audio track ]

Audio tag: 0x2000 (AC3)
Bitrate (container): 192 kbps CBR
Channels (container): 2
Sample rate (container): 48000 Hz
Chunks: 112114
Stream size: 107,639,808 bytes
Preload: 480 ms
Max A/V diff: 496 ms
AC-3 frames: 140156
Play duration: 01:14:45 (4484.992 s)
Chunk-aligned: No
Mode: stereo
Delay: 0 ms

[ About MPEG4 encoding ]

User data: XviD0047
Packed bitstream: No
QPel: No
GMC: No
Interlaced: No
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Quant type: MPEG custom (*)
Custom intra quant matrix: 
      8  10  11  11  12  13  14  16
     10  11  11  12  13  14  16  17
     11  11  12  13  14  16  17  19
     11  12  13  14  16  18  20  23
     12  13  14  16  18  21  24  30
     13  14  16  18  21  25  32  40
     14  16  17  20  24  32  43  53
     16  17  19  23  30  40  53  70
Custom inter quant matrix: 
     13  14  15  15  16  18  20  22
     14  15  15  16  18  20  22  24
     15  15  16  18  20  22  24  27
     15  16  18  20  22  25  28  32
     16  18  20  22  25  29  33  42
     18  20  22  25  29  34  45  56
     20  22  24  28  33  45  60  74
     22  24  27  32  42  56  74  98
Number of frames: 112140
Drop/delay frames: 0
Corrupted frames: 0

I-VOPs:   909 (  0.811 %)                          
P-VOPs: 56082 ( 50.011 %) #############            
B-VOPs: 55149 ( 49.179 %) ############             
S-VOPs:     0 (  0.000 %)                          
N-VOPs:     0 (  0.000 %)                          

Max consecutive B-VOPs: 1

[ DRF analysis ]

Average DRF: 3.049081
Standard deviation: 0.965444
Max DRF: 4

DRF<2:     0 (  0.000 %)                          
DRF=2: 49645 ( 44.271 %) ###########              
DRF=3:  7346 (  6.551 %) ##                       
DRF=4: 55149 ( 49.179 %) ############             
DRF>4:     0 (  0.000 %)                          

I-VOPs average DRF: 2.102310
I-VOPs std. deviation: 0.303055
I-VOPs max DRF: 3

P-VOPs average DRF: 2.129328
P-VOPs std. deviation: 0.335563
P-VOPs max DRF: 3

B-VOPs average DRF: 4
B-VOPs std. deviation: 0
B-VOPs max DRF: 4

[ Profile compliancy ]

Profile to check: MTK PAL 6000
Resolution: Ok
Framerate: Ok
Min buffer fill: 80%

This report was created by AVInaptic (18-11-2007) on  5 lug 2008, h 23:01:53

And the second attempt:

Code:

[ About file ]

Name: VTS_02_0_HCH.avi
Date: 5/07/2008 16:31:41
Size: 908,621,824 bytes (866.529 MB)

[ Generic infos ]

Play duration: 01:14:46 (4485.6 s)
Container type: AVI OpenDML
Number of streams: 2
Type of stream nr. 0: video
Type of stream nr. 1: audio
Audio streams: 1
ISFT: VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.2 (build 2540/release)
JUNK: VirtualDubMod build 2540/release

[ Relevant data ]

Resolution: 640 x 432
Width: multiple of 32
Height: multiple of 16
Average DRF: 2.128517
Standard deviation: 0.334665
Std. dev. weighted mean: 0.334645

[ Video track ]

FourCC: xvid/XVID
Resolution: 640 x 432
Frame aspect ratio: 40:27 = 1.481481
Pixel aspect ratio: 1:1 = 1
Display aspect ratio: 40:27 = 1.481481
Framerate: 25 fps
Number of frames: 112140
Stream size: 795,532,072 bytes
Bitrate: 1418.819461 kbps
Qf: 0.205269
Key frames: 914 (0; 240; 480; 720; 742; ... 111951)
Null frames: 0
Min key int: 1
Max key int: 240
Avg key int: 122.691466
Delay: 0 ms

[ Audio track ]

Audio tag: 0x2000 (AC3)
Bitrate (container): 192 kbps CBR
Channels (container): 2
Sample rate (container): 48000 Hz
Chunks: 112114
Stream size: 107,639,808 bytes
Preload: 480 ms
Max A/V diff: 496 ms
AC-3 frames: 140156
Play duration: 01:14:45 (4484.992 s)
Chunk-aligned: No
Mode: stereo
Delay: 0 ms

[ About MPEG4 encoding ]

User data: XviD0047
Packed bitstream: No
QPel: No
GMC: No
Interlaced: No
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Quant type: MPEG custom (*)
Custom intra quant matrix: 
      8  10  11  11  12  13  14  16
     10  11  11  12  13  14  16  17
     11  11  12  13  14  16  17  19
     11  12  13  14  16  18  20  23
     12  13  14  16  18  21  24  30
     13  14  16  18  21  25  32  40
     14  16  17  20  24  32  43  53
     16  17  19  23  30  40  53  70
Custom inter quant matrix: 
     13  14  15  15  16  18  20  22
     14  15  15  16  18  20  22  24
     15  15  16  18  20  22  24  27
     15  16  18  20  22  25  28  32
     16  18  20  22  25  29  33  42
     18  20  22  25  29  34  45  56
     20  22  24  28  33  45  60  74
     22  24  27  32  42  56  74  98
Number of frames: 112140
Drop/delay frames: 0
Corrupted frames: 0

I-VOPs:    914 (  0.815 %)                          
P-VOPs: 111226 ( 99.185 %) #########################
B-VOPs:      0 (  0.000 %)                          
S-VOPs:      0 (  0.000 %)                          
N-VOPs:      0 (  0.000 %)                          

[ DRF analysis ]

Average DRF: 2.128517
Standard deviation: 0.334665
Max DRF: 3

DRF<2:     0 (  0.000 %)                          
DRF=2: 97728 ( 87.148 %) ######################   
DRF=3: 14412 ( 12.852 %) ###                      
DRF>3:     0 (  0.000 %)                          

I-VOPs average DRF: 2.102844
I-VOPs std. deviation: 0.303755
I-VOPs max DRF: 3

P-VOPs average DRF: 2.128728
P-VOPs std. deviation: 0.334899
P-VOPs max DRF: 3

[ Profile compliancy ]

Profile to check: MTK PAL 6000
Resolution: Ok
Framerate: Ok
Min buffer fill: 79%

This report was created by AVInaptic (18-11-2007) on  5 lug 2008, h 23:00:38

This stuff is all abacadabra to me, so if you have comments, please put them as simply as possible

elguaxo

The first stats say:

DRF=2: 49645 ( 44.271 %) ###########
DRF=3: 7346 ( 6.551 %) ##
DRF=4: 55149 ( 49.179 %) ############

that means you didn't use the B-VOPs as I recommended. First pass left, second pass right:

Code:

|    \--- B-VOPs                              |    \--- B-VOPs
|         |                                   |         |
|         +--- Max bvops       : 1            |         +--- Max bvops       : 1
|         +--- quant ratio     : 1.62         |         +--- quant ratio     : 1.62
|         \--- quant offset    : 0.00         |         \--- quant offset    : 0.00

I guess that rip, but with these setting will work.

RedVeil

Maybe this is a stupid question and forgive me my lack of knowledge:

Regarding my ugly source that you helped me with... Will it help anything when I record the DVD through a TV card? Does it avoid interlacing / blending effects?

Slayer

elguaxo wrote:

The first stats say:

DRF=2: 49645 ( 44.271 %) ###########
DRF=3: 7346 ( 6.551 %) ##
DRF=4: 55149 ( 49.179 %) ############

that means you didn't use the B-VOPs as I recommended. First pass left, second pass right:

Code:

|    \--- B-VOPs                              |    \--- B-VOPs
|         |                                   |         |
|         +--- Max bvops       : 1            |         +--- Max bvops       : 1
|         +--- quant ratio     : 1.62         |         +--- quant ratio     : 1.62
|         \--- quant offset    : 0.00         |         \--- quant offset    : 0.00

I guess that rip, but with these setting will work.

Mmm, I'm almost sure I did put Max Bvops to 1. The 6of9 rip failed, so I'm gonna do a retry with the heini and Bvops on 1 for sure.

elguaxo

You set 1B-VOP, but not the other things! Quant Ratio and Quant Offset. I bet the Quant Offset was 1 instead of 0.

@RedVeil: it wont avoid blending and temporal smearing, but perhaps you will lose so many details that they won't be noticeable. :wink:

Slayer

Oh damn, I completely overlooked that one. Changed it.

Slayer

It came out 712 MB now. Another thing: audio is out of sync by approx. 1 second, how can I fix that?

elguaxo

Please post the DRF stats to see if you did properly. :mrgreen:

Beginners Guide To Ripping With Gordian Knot

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