Yeah that sucks, but i believe madrid was several hundred dead and thousands injured, its sheer luck that this one took place at the end of rush hour and not during else given london is bigger and the transportation is busier. Obviously its a bit petty picking up on scale but its really lucky it wasn't during rush hour.



I can't help but think that's a failure on our part from not integrating them properally and banning the isolasionalism we get with ethnic communities.

I always hate to see someone living in a society, then not considering themselves a member of it. Its very arrogant, fine if your french/english/american/israeli/iraqi/pakistan/etc born, then you should think of yourself as whatever born, but if you live in a country, you contribute to that society.. this go to a different school, live in a solely ethnic town, speak only your own language is why things are so f*cked up with a lot of these people. It should flat out shouldn't be allowed for this crap to happen, it breeds native racism and it means that these communities will never integrate themselves. Britain is supposed to be ethnically diverse, but if they don't even consider themselves British, then its not true at all. I'd hate for their to be a backlash, but its really not helpful when neither side makes it easy on the other.

Af far as I am concerned if someone of a diferent race, colour, whatever becomes a member of our society then that is that. I will respect their beliefs and I expect them to do the same. Above all, they need to consider themselves as British and do what they must to support the country.

IMHO if someone becomes a British citizen then their allegiance should be to this country.

@Spud, you know for a fact, same as I do, that some racist pigs will use this as an excuse for violence, and these are just as bad as the cowards who orchestrated this attack on the innocent.

yes, I mean its not like race riots aren't a new thing to Birmingham or Bradford. There's no excuse for ignorance... I know a few people that'd consider vocally racist, its a tad sad to see them taint something like this.



Not like in the states though, that kind of ticker-tape allegiance is just phoney and makes things worse. Its just a mindset that people need to get out of, and they should not be allowed to settle in entirely ethnic communities, it just makes racism easier.

Its not like they just do the same thing with ethnic minorities, see how council housing puts the same types of people next door to each other. The same kind of thing applies, dumping people in the same street is the worst thing you can do.

this conversation is taking a weird track

I'm not sure what your meaning at all.

ok, what you mean by that ?
was that supposed to be another stupid WWII allusion ?
anyway, i don't think their aim is to "break" you
their aim is to kill as many people just to make a point
to show the world they have a grief



fuck allegiance to anything, whether it be a country, a religion, whatever
that's how it all starts
constant self questioning is what we should all be aiming for

i'm french-english born in marocco
i don't feel i belong to any country, or owe anything to anyone
patriotism is the root of all evil imo

anyway, i'm not gonna start a controversy...

i'm deeply sadenned by the whole story
but when governments sell weapons to just anyone who wants them
it is kind of their responsability when these sort of things happen i reckon
you harvest what you sow

see, this is why talking politics on a forum is not a good idea

Arkhane, i think the problem is you don't really know what me and takyon were talking about, if you look at the makeup of Britain, the population is extremely diverse, but not very well integrated which is a real failure imo. And i've already said its not allegiance, don't get me started against patriotism because i can vocally run you into the ground going on and on about how much i loathe it; I stated i don't agree with that, but I answered that a post above... but you can't live in a country and not act like you live in that country, that's patriotism, its just contempt for society which me and tak were talking about. Patriotism is blind and fleeting, it is not society but an excuse for not tackling issues.

Sorry i thought you were about something i said, its not like anything i said isn't the case But i think your off on a tangent that hasn't really been posted on. If you read takyons posts in the past he's not really the overly patriotic type, i doubt i've misjudged his character

not to worry, i was just baffled about 1 or two things takyon said
trust me, i'm not gonna judge anyone on just a couple of posts
that's why i didn't even react at union.simon first paragraph

i just wish we could discuss this in the pub !

Not in the slightest like the states, you are correct that that is just phoney. I am thinking more along the lines of being appreciative to the fact we have welcomed and accepted them as our own. Our quality of life is very good in general compared to most countries, and if they see fit to judge their native countries as unsuitable and move here then the least they can do is try to assimilate into the greater whole. I know ppl from many diferent races, and unfortunately they do not feel very welcome ATM, but they will also accept the fact they grew up mainly mixing with their own race, and they will admit they sometimes have difficulties functioning in a fully compatible way.

@arkhane, if you were offended by my offhand comment about not giving up like France, then you have my sincerest apologies as no offence was intended. I have a pretty strange sense of humour, coupled with the fact I know a huge number of ppl from just about all races, I often say things many could misconstrue, but I do not say things to cause offence.

The problem I have is that I am completely non-racist, I have no issue on a personal level with any race, and thus I have no issue with them lightheartedly mocking my race, just as I assume they have no issue with me doing the same.

Please remember for future reference that anything I say that sounds racist is not meant to be intended that way. Just consider it a flippant comment with no malice intended. Even if we were argueing nothing racist would be said. Trust me, I have more than enough intellect to have a rational arguement.

Trust me my friend, you would know if I was trying to offend

Also Mr Arkhane, this is not actually a political conversation, this is on a higher level, more of a discussion on how the human mind and logic should shape society. I also do not believe that mentioning the current faults and failures is political, we are discussing a problem that will not be corrected by politics. The different peoples choose, on whatever conscious level, to partially segregate themselves, politicians have no right to tell them how to live and where to live.

Back @Spud, I would consider myself to be patriotic, but not in the mainstream sense. My loyalty to this country will never push me to do something I feel is wrong.

No, my loyalty is founded in the simple fact that this country has given me a good, and easy, life. I am well fed, well looked after, and overall happy, I know this would have been harder to achieve in many countries, so I will just be gratefull and do what I can to help this country help me maintain this level of comfort and happiness.

As for politics, they hold almost zero interest to me. I understand the bigger picture on a global scale, I understand the reasoning for what decisions are made most of the time, but I can also appreciate that it is the single biggest pile of shit ever conceived in it's current form.

Every system is flawed one way or another, and the only quickfix would be a total rebuild. But that ain't ever going to happen so I guess we just poodle along the way we are for the time being until the rest of humanity catches the select few up and society morphs into the next level, hopefully a more peacefull and compassionate place.

Not that it matters, but i don't think you'll feel a thing.

I pretty much agree with vermin and simon on this one. It may be short-sighted, narrowminded but (from my experience) it's true that almost any muslim agrees with these terrorist actions (i count an evasive comment like 'well, i don't think it's right to do but i don't mind it.' as 'i agree with them') and i see muslims all the time (hey, i live in the Netherlands). I do not mind muslims really (of course i'd like to see all of the Islam disappear, like most other religions but what can you do...) but i do mind the more fanatic ones. Especially the way they are always defending themselves, even when you're not offending them. They always want to hear they're right and convince other people from ther pathetic beliefs.

Although there's one thing you guys are wrong about. Fucking goats is an act of evil and has nothing to do with Islam. Goats are Satanic and totally evil !

Hence that is what makes them so damned good

D. goats are not evil, just misunderstood. They are pretty cool tho.

As for religion, it served it's purpose in uniting ppl to a point, but now it's time has passed and it is more of a hinderance IMHO.

I understand goats all to well...as you can attest to tak It's a hell of an initiation process joining str...but without it I would have never tried some of the new things demanded upon me by my fellow cohorts

Dude, I'm gonna let that comment slide...not sure why, but I have a feeling I should...lol. I have about 82 really rude things to say at the moment...lol.

Born

aw yes , sorry for being late in expressing my sympathy....

The thing is , I've been buzzing around this thread now for 24hrs not knowing exactly what to say....

Must have had 5 drafts by now....and deleted them all.....

And.....aww crap.. don't elaborate.....just post for godssake

Boy do i know that feeling, I'm like that on nearly every other thread on some sites.

This is what I wrote on CM's...thought it might be ok to post here:

I think due to the emotional impact this has had on all of us, this thread surprisingly remains open. Since we are first and foremost a "community" here, to just shut the thread down would be hasty.

I'll sum up my feelings, and I think some would agree that actions like this create or even promote racism. Let's be honest...we're human and prone to self-protection as a rule. I don't know about you, but as soon as something like this happens, I start to have fears that some might say are irrational. If I see someone of muslim descent, or who I might percieve to be muslim, I might think twice momentarily, hell, I might even get a bit angry.

I think at least stating that openly is a healthy thing. I forgive myself for reacting the only way I know how to in a fucked up situation. I also trust myself to allow logic and reason to enter back into my thinking.

I can imagine what muslims think when something like this happens. I bet they feel like the diseased pariahs of their neighborhood and might even fear leaving their homes.

I can't "apologize" for having thoughts like that, since fear and emotion are intrinsic parts of who we all are. It's how we deal with those feelings thats important.

Let's just remember that getting angry at a whole group of people for the actions of a few isn't helping anyone. Creating a stronger bond is.

Anyways, enough of my fluffy stuff.

Stay perverted folks.

Bornagainst

While I felt lousy and like kind of a racist ass after reading what I wrote, I decided to post it. And while I do not feel hatred towards muslims or Islam in general, I do have certain strong feelings towards those particular fucked up religious psychos (and any others in fact). And though that doesn't make me feel too good about myself too, it does make me feel, well, 'human' and that is something I can understand... And since I do hate hipocrisy and I don't really like denying what I feel or think, I am in fact quite OK with it...

And on a slightly lighter note -- goats do, in fact, rule!

As a fellow nihilist I agree that it's too easy to pin this on the bad guys of the year.



I strongly agree: any sort of fanatic deserves to be cleaned from the gene pool . We live in a world with different perspectives and people who can't accept that should grow up.

Looks like there's been a bomb scare / fake report in Birmingham now
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4668313.stm